Tough job for Ling

[SteveDeckchair]

Bruce....Terry....me old mucker.

You may be a miserable old bastard but I still enjoy your posts.......I admire the way that you at least, are a consistently miserable old bastard and can see the despair and despondency in any situation.

If knee-jerking were to become an Olympic sport in 2012 - then you my friend, would be there on the podium, shiny gold medal around your neck

Said so much better than me.

Sorry, but I couldn't help myself and got all hot and bothered. I would gladly shove a pasty up your arse though Brucie.

[jocktheknife]

There is a case to say the Board were responsible for the last task though, Justin. Did anyone see Buckle during that game? He didn't look concerned at all, a real lack of professional pride if you ask me. His substitutions on the day confused everyone. My view is that the Board knew well in advance the state of affairs and mugged us off by allowing it to unfold the way it did. I heard there was talk of putting Buckle on gardening leave at the time, I'd rather have lost with Kerry Haggan in charge that that smug prat Buckle.

EDIT: Before Darryl gets on my case, that is not intended to be a slur on Kerry at all

Dave,

I agree that the board were put in an awful position by Buckle, contractually they could not stop him talking to BRFC we all know that.......in retrospect though, you're spot on, they made the wrong call, I think we'd have had a better chance in the final without him, even with someone like Veysey in charge - it would probably have galvanised the spirit in the squad, there was no spirit on the day the uncertainty of the future put paid to that.
It would have been some call though, there would have been the usual calls of the club doesn't want promotion etc. - you can understand them wanting the man they employed as a manager to do his job.

Like many, I felt slightly cheated coming out of OT, by Buckle yep but not by the board.

[Gulliball]

Gulliball,

You state that you write factually......then you go on and spout some clear untruths and a load of pure conjecture!

How do you know Stevens and Macklin are "starters" this season? Yeoman and Palmer were squad players last season, so not much promotion there.....Spear was in the youth set up and has obviously deserved a crack at being a pro.
How do you know what our squad will look like, when their is still several players to come in?

You don't, of course.......nor do I.

You then state fans are going to feel a bit upset, especially when we are cutting back on the playing budget to the extent we are.

Again......pure conjecture, unless of course you want to supply the figures in question.

Of course, we're all a bit pissed off with how it ended up last season, expectations were raised and we didn't deliver twice when it mattered, Crawley and Stevenage.

Was that the boards fault too?

I stated it's factual, because it's based on Ling's comments about how large our squad will be next season. It currently numbers 19, to which we are going to add a reserve GK, a winger and 2 strikers (one of which won't start unless we drop Kee). This means that we're in effect, two players down on last season and as a result, players are going to have to feature more than they would have then, which isn't based on merit.

Of course if we do pull a rabbit out the hat and sign another 4 first team players, then I'll apologise, but based on what the club have communicated there's 4 more players to arrive on top of what we already have. Given that it's heavily linked that Parkinson is the winger we're after, our attacking options look rather weak at the moment. I can't guarentee you that Stevens and Macklin will be starters, but as the other options are Halpin and TBA (Parkinson?), I think it's a fair shout that those two will play a lot more than they did last season.

Yeoman and Palmer weren't what I would call squad players last season, they played for 0 minutes between them. Spear was our stand-out youth player, but he's 18 and has no first team experience. He may be the next Lee Sharpe, but the fact Ling has never seen him play (pre-season started today) and yet he's counted in our first team options rather heavily implies he's there to fill the squad out. Yeoman/Spear will be our 4th attacking player next season, which is a step down in class on last season when we had Zebroski/Kee/Tomlin/Robinson (and before that Zebroski/Kee/Benyon/Gritton). That was why I said we're moving in the wrong direction, and you've posted nothing to counter that argument since.

Well Buckle stated the budget is lower this season than last season, as did Ling. And as you can see from who has gone out and who has come in. Are you challenging that our budget hasn't been cut back?

The board weren't responsible for matters on the pitch, but they were for several of the things I listed in a previous post. We've been deducted points for admin issues, have failed to file accounts on time, haven't got the new kit on sale before August three years in a row, haven't promoted the membership scheme, haven't improved the communication with the fans.

That I think is a perfectly valid viewpoint, which led me to the conclusion that the club is moving backwards on where we were last year. I'd be interested to see your argument for how we're stronger than we were 12 months ago.

[jocktheknife]

Gulliball,

It's too late to keep arguing the same points mate.

I'm not challenging anything about our budget, I don't know what it is, nor do you. Buckle said it's a lot lower but he said a lot of things that weren't quite true, didn't he? From what i recall Ling said it was competitive with the smaller clubs in this league, on gates of 1500 at times last season, that'll do for me.

The argument about us being weaker than last year is ridiculous until we see the finished squad - last season's was only a mid table squad, boosted hugely by some useful loanees for the last 3 months.

I just felt your original cheap jibe at the board was OTT and I stand by that.

[Gulliball]

I just felt your original cheap jibe at the board was OTT and I stand by that.

Well it wasn't meant to come across as a cheap shot. The board are all TUFC fans and have done a tremendous amount of good in their time here. I probably worded it slightly simply, a result of the frustration of the fee received for Zebroski.

It was meant to be more of an expression of worry that we're not going to build on it by maintaining that progression. Get relegated now and we're right back where we started 4 years ago, only this time without Paul Bristow to act as our saviour.

Fair enough, I won't go through it all again as we'll just go round and round in circles. But in my opinion, there's more than enough evidence from the last 12 months to question how the club is being run, and several things which have been a weakness for TUFC for a long time (I'm thinking mainly communication and portrayal of the club to its fans) don't show any signs of improving.

The argument about us being weaker than last year is ridiculous until we see the finished squad - last season's was only a mid table squad, boosted hugely by some useful loanees for the last 3 months.

I just don't buy that at all. How many more players do you think we're going to add? From all reports, including the mouth of Martin Ling, we're going to add three players to our attacking options.

A reminder that we currently have Macklin, Stevens, Halpin, Kee, McPhee, Yeoman and Spear. Andy Parkinson is heavily linked with being one of the signings, and I'd place him in the same quality bracket as Stevens, Macklin and Halpin.

If we play a 4-4-2 (as Ling has suggested) then simply put, we need a hell of a lot more up front than we've got. With three genuinely quality L2 attackers then we'd have enough to start the first game of the season (with absolutely nothing on the bench). By the time injuries, suspensions etc take effect, we're going to be playing players who haven't proven themselves at this level - a huge risk to take.

If last year was as you say, a mid-table squad and budget, and this year is a cut-back on that... then we're going to be down the wrong end of the table. I don't see why we have to wait for October to discuss this - especially as this is a fans forum during the close season, there's not a lot else to discuss.

[Glostergull]

The usual moaners and doom and gloomers spouting their nonsense!

Get a grip people for heavens sakes.........I cannot stand negativity for negativities sake, their is just so much of it on here.

Lets look at the facts - We were not in a strong position with Zebroski, not only does the guy live up that way, he wanted to go and could have walked for nothing at the end of the season.
Their has been no official word of the fee - apart from the Bristol Post stating it was 35k up front with add ons, even if you choose to believe this it is likely that the fee will probably end up double that figure or more perhaps - 60/80k for a reasonably decent but limited L2 striker (with well documented "issues"), under these circumstances is completely FAIR.

I've read such gems on here that if Benyon went for 125k then Zeb should be 150-200k! - what a load of old twaddle! - was never going to happen in a million years, even though Zeb is probably the more effective player.
Swindon were in the sh*t on transfer deadline day, staring relegation in the face - they HAD to buy a striker we knew that and took them for a cool 125k, he wasn't worth half that in today's depressed transfer market - Zeb was a buyers market, Benyon a sellers market.......simple as that.

Instead of slagging off the board - try and engage your brain first.....
Zeb cost 20k Benyon cost nothing, both did well enough but hardly set the world on fire, both proven L2 players but little more in all honesty, both were happy to leave and get more money elsewhere.

........we turned 20k into nearly 200k and got good service from them both along the way - brilliant business for a club of our size, and yet the board get a good slagging - in the words of Gulliball - "You do have to question the direction in which the club is being run" - dear oh dear! With fans like you I'm feckin glad I'm not one of 10/11 that chucked their 'hard earned in to save this club.

Ling has stated that our budget is in the "middle 8" in this Lge, instead all you read on here is that its bordering on BSP South level, again completely untrue! - the board should be congratulated for that as our gates are somewhere in the bottom 4 or 5 for a start.

Ling is an experienced manager and he knows this league, he can see that we've lost some of our better players - he knows his last signings are going to need to be quality ones - I, for one am pleased he's taking his time to get the right players in, we already know he has a much bigger set of contacts than Buckle ever had.

Enough of the knee jerk, doom and gloom, it's bloody depressing reading and it's also unfair.....

Let's judge the squad when we see who lines up on the 1st day of the season and see if it has the potential we all hope it has, after 10-15 games or so.

Well said Jock
The season hans't started yet and we are at it like kids. Wait untill the season is 10 games old before you all behave like little grim reapers. Put the knives away and lets see what happens in the next few weeks. I for sure wouldn't want players at Torquay who want to be elsewhere. I wonder what those so called loyal players who express undying love for our club will say in the next few months. Undying love for the club they have now joined?
I for one have no definate idea what Zebs went for. No figure has been released. so how can we say he went for 35k it may have been a lot more. I do know that Rovers first offer was turned down. the statment from the club was that they have now offered what we want. So I would surmise it is a lot more. I may well be wrong, it is also possible that the first offer was for only 5k and we turned that down. But untill someone shows us concrete proof it is wrong to surmise that he was given away.
I have a little more faith in MR Ling than that too. I am sure he will be watching and waiting. Biding his time and swooping when he can. I think he has pulled off a coup with our new young Goalkeeper. he may well have the gift of motivating more than we realise and with a new team and a new chance he may well yet surpass what he achieved with Orient. So stop the romanesque attitude. Et Tu Brutas. put the knives away

[brucie]

Robertson can quite happily **** off as well - Ellis is in any case a better player. Ling has an incredibly tough task but he knew that when he took the job.
Obviously we don't know what the squad will be like when we start but if lined up now I honestly think we would struggle to stay in the conference with what we have at present.

[bixieupnorth]

yep i agree, if he doesnt want to be there and wants to hang around with that **** up the road then hes not a man i like either

ellis and saah will be great at the back, just you wait and see!

[Fonda]

Robbo is a more reliable defender than Ellis - it's why he's in the team. But that's for another thread...

It's true, there is time for the squad to change yet, so now is not the time to panic. Having said that, it's also fair to say the 'gems' will have been taken by now. What is left, is unlikely to be a vast improvement on what we already have surely? They'd be fixed up otherwise. Yet again we rely on the loan market. Let's hope Ling can play it.

[Bloggy]

As seems to be the case with our contracted players... just because they're not floating around in the 'unattached' pool and currently fixed with another club, mean that they're not on our radar?
Or has the club said we won't be buying any players that require a fee?

Perhaps Ling will use the old "know anybody that can play football?" line with the current squad! Or are those days behind us?

[royalgull]

Robbo is a more reliable defender than Ellis - it's why he's in the team. But that's for another thread...

It's true, there is time for the squad to change yet, so now is not the time to panic. Having said that, it's also fair to say the 'gems' will have been taken by now. What is left, is unlikely to be a vast improvement on what we already have surely? They'd be fixed up otherwise. Yet again we rely on the loan market. Let's hope Ling can play it.

Always going to be the case, the 'gems' would have been hoovered up by the bigger clubs anyway, we always are pretty reliant on the scraps and trying to unearth the occasional gem in that. Either that or you are reliant on your managers previous contacts to entice players down here. The loan market is vital for clubs like Torquay who have small budgets and resources, it's how you use it. Fair to say Buckle on the whole was fairly good at it (yes there were some duds but everyone has some when you are delaing with loaning young kids) and we desperately need Ling to have a similar success rate. If it means us loaning a young kid to play left wing then that for me is far more preferable than us having Andy Parkinson on a 2 year permanent contract.

[Boom Boom]

How on earth can Jock say that the team now isn't weaker than last year? Jesus christ. Our team is nailed on for relegation unless Ling makes some solid signings.

[royalgull]

July 5th.

[jocktheknife]

How on earth can Jock say that the team now isn't weaker than last year? Jesus christ. Our team is nailed on for relegation unless Ling makes some solid signings.

Read the post properly......I said that until the squad is complete you cannot make a comparison.

[Fonda]

I like the way Ling is going about things generally speaking because he's definitely up against it. Following a manager who's own achievements were exaggerated by the benefit of a more-than-competetive budget. I hope people are sensible in their expectations, and don't jump on the new man's back if we start slowly. The last manager benefitted from fortunate timing - we couldn't get any lower and had the finances to improve. The current manager is taking over a team that did well last season, but has since been ripped apart. And it seems he'll struggle to recreate that with the current budget.

It's been a mixed bag of a summer for me so far. I was annoyed at the way Bucks left, but not disappointed that he's gone. I hoped for an exciting appointment, and whilst Ling's recent record doesn't make him that - i'm reasonably content having him at the helm. We've lost a lot of players that we'd all have preferred we keep, and some of those brought in have less obvious quality.

The signings of Olejnik and Saah represent excellent business for me. Offered the choice between them and the Bevan and Branston combination - i'm inclined to think we're potentially stronger defensively now - especially with the dedicated right-back, which we lacked for almost Buckle's entire tenure.

But we're significantly weaker offensively. In losing Stanley and Zebroski (from the team we expected to have), there are some huge gaps to fill. I hope (and think) Mcphee will prove to be unrecogniseable from the player we had before. I'm confident we'll be pleasantly surprised at the player he's become. But by re-signing Danny Stevens, and have him competing with the likes of Halpin and Macklin for wing-berths, our lack of attacking depth is exposed. We need at least one proven winger (preferably two) and two strikers.

Our ultimate prospects depend on Ling's ability to find and attract the players to fill these gaps. Whether they be permanent signings or loans is largely irrelevant. Getting the right players is all that counts. I like what i've seen so far, he's at least filling round holes with round pegs - something his predecessor rarely managed. Now is not the time to panic, it is the time to trust the new man to do what's necessary within the restraints imposed on him.