The 'Elite Player Performance Programme'

[Plymouth Gull]

Anyone heard of it? It is the new system in place as of 2012/13, which basically screws up everything that lower league clubs aim for. Some lower league clubs depends on bringing through youngsters and selling them on, to keep afloat. Well, that may not be possible anymore.

This system gets rid of the current tribunal system, which has been serving in the FL for years. As you all know, the tribunal system allows a club to get a fee for a player they lose to another club, depending on how much they've helped that players career improvement. Well, now, according to this new system, which the Premier League basically forced the Football League to sign (saying they'd totally withhold funding for youth systems if the FL rejected), it is practically allowing the top division clubs to hoover up all of the young talent that could turn good. It isn't a case of finding the right ones now, it is practically allowing them to buy 20, in the hope that 2/3 come good.

The most that a club can receive for a young player now is 130k. Whereas, for example, just last week, Chelsea paid £1.5m to MK Dons for a 14-year old. Smaller clubs will only receive more than the £130k in the future, if the player becomes any good.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... -academies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... erformance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15381652.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anyone have any idea how much it costs running our youth system a year? Because I can see their being a few clubs who decide not to bother with youth anymore, knowing they won't make very much from it.

This makes me hate the Premier League even more, now.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Also, does anyone "in the know" know if we voted for or against this? Not that it matters, but I'm just interested.

[Regiment]

yep, another big F**K YOU to the little guys. i don't really like Barry Fry, but his comments about it were spot on, in that smaller clubs may be forced to close their youth academies as a result of all this.

[stevegull]

Terrible. I don't know how these people can get away with it. Clearly, they are aiming to bring through more top english players into the top flight, but what everyone agrees on that is good for a kid's footballing development is minutes on the pitch! This way, yes, the kids will get a chance to train with better facilities, but they probably won't get a taste of first team football at that club until they are at least 21.

[Plymouth Gull]

Terrible. I don't know how these people can get away with it. Clearly, they are aiming to bring through more top english players into the top flight, but what everyone agrees on that is good for a kid's footballing development is minutes on the pitch! This way, yes, the kids will get a chance to train with better facilities, but they probably won't get a taste of first team football at that club.

Fixed for you, Steve. Anyone saying that this will help the England national team and football together is a moron.

[Trojan 67]

Anyone heard of it? It is the new system in place as of 2012/13, which basically screws up everything that lower league clubs aim for. Some lower league clubs depends on bringing through youngsters and selling them on, to keep afloat. Well, that may not be possible anymore.

This system gets rid of the current tribunal system, which has been serving in the FL for years. As you all know, the tribunal system allows a club to get a fee for a player they lose to another club, depending on how much they've helped that players career improvement. Well, now, according to this new system, which the Premier League basically forced the Football League to sign (saying they'd totally withhold funding for youth systems if the FL rejected), it is practically allowing the top division clubs to hoover up all of the young talent that could turn good. It isn't a case of finding the right ones now, it is practically allowing them to buy 20, in the hope that 2/3 come good.

The most that a club can receive for a young player now is 130k. Whereas, for example, just last week, Chelsea paid £1.5m to MK Dons for a 14-year old. Smaller clubs will only receive more than the £130k in the future, if the player becomes any good.

These are rules for under 17's only. As soon as a player gets to 17 he can sign a professional contract and the selling club can ask for any fee they want,

[Plymouth Gull]

Indeed, Troj, but if a player shows any potential before that he'll get snapped up, thats how I see it.

I doubt there'll be many that reach 17 that will turn out to be Premier League quality, personally.

[Trojan 67]

It looks like we'll have to develop talent like we did in the good old bad old days . .

. . . from local district football, from all it's levels.

Apart from Stefano, does anyone else on here remember Torquay United "A" ?

[Gulliball]

No player with any hype at all will stay at their local club once this comes in. The maximum fee is £130k, for likely fees for a promising 14-16 year old is going to be under half that, depending on when they first joined the academy. A Premiership side can sign 20 of the most promising youngsters from anywhere in the country and pay around a million for them all, which would buy you about a mid-table Championship standard left back in today's market.

The top sides have too many of the best youngsters anyway. Any player with the ability to play in the Premiership should be playing regular first team football by the age of 17-18, which they'd get if they were at their local clubs to begin with. As it is, they're playing youth and reserve football until into their 20s, with the occasional loan spell.

Moving more of the best young players to the bigger clubs is a huge step in the wrong direction anyway. But to do it whilst damaging the futures of almost all lower league clubs is just disgusting.

[Dave]

I personaly have done a number of F.A coaching courses, spent 5 years coaching in youth football, and spent last year working in part of a development football scouting network , i have never claimed to be an expert , however could go on for hours in what i believe to be right and wrong with youth football development in this country, dont worry not going to bore you to much.

I think there is a need to seperate emotion from the actual football coaching element of this plan, spending more time coaching young footballers , spot on and will help the best young kids in this country, and in time will help the England team, our internationals are technicaly lightyears behind the Dutch, German and Spanish , and the problem does stem right back to youth coaching, but then i read on and this is restricted to premier league clubs only, so league 2 clubs like our own can not go over the 5 hours a week over 2 sessions of coaching they do at the moment, how fair is that? how does that help our kids improve,as far as compensation being capped at £131k bit of joke enough said.

There are different levels that clubs have for there young kids, its normal to start at Development level before progressing to Centre of Exellence, and bigger clubs have full academies as many will know.

I am led to believe our Centre of Exellence cost in the region of £200k a year to run, however can not confirm that as true, our club has a number of development centre's which our not funded by the club from Truro up to North Devon and Taunton.

The biggest threat to our Centre of Exellence is not this plan, more relegation to the conference, our club get funding towards the running costs of the C/O/E as a football league club, which goes towards training ,matchs and coach travel for the kids, the C/O/E player onlys pays for his kit and training football, that funding would be lost should our club return to the conference, in which to keep the centre running our club would have to charge players fee's to cover the training, matchs and coach travel which the players currently do not pay for.

Should our club return to conference i can see our Centre of Exellence losing most of the kids who progressed from Cornwall, Plymouth, North Devon and Taunton, as i should imagine the parents would not be able to afford traverling to Torquay up to 3 times a week for training and dropping there kids off at plainmoor to catch to bus, coupled with having to pay fee's on top.

At the moment should our club lucky enough to develop one player that was of interest to a P/L club the full £131k if that applied would only be likey to help our youth system break even for one year, again hardly seems fair, to really help the England team, this country needs a production line of talent coming from all levels of the game, and that is not going happen if youth develop is only for the rich,funding needs to spread across all four levels evenly.

[Bomber]

There is also the debate of how it would actually benefit the players in question. For example, an outstanding prospect at 16 years old may not necessary become a world beater at 23.

Using our own Mark Ellis as an example, he joined Bolton from Exeter City as a 16 year old, but didn't break into their first team and, at approaching 23, is now playing in League Two.

Personally, I believe Mark has the potential to play at a higher level, but how would and could he have progressed if he was with a team where he could have been guaranteed greater opportunities of first team football at a younger age?

In this case, it may have worked in our favour, but it does reflect that there is likely to be players who won't see the benefits of the new proposals.

[Scottish Gull]

I personaly have done a number of F.A coaching courses, spent 5 years coaching in youth football

Just out of interest Forever what badges do you hold is it the run a squad badges or specialist badges. I personally am a Level 2 GK coach awaiting to sit my basic licence (which is 2 away from the uefa licence). I also hold The Coaching youth footballers 12-18 level 1 and the Club Coach (adults) C licence. All the above are SFA badges so aren't valid in England.

[Dave]

Just out of interest Forever what badges do you hold is it the run a squad badges or specialist badges. I personally am a Level 2 GK coach awaiting to sit my basic licence (which is 2 away from the uefa licence). I also hold The Coaching youth footballers 12-18 level 1 and the Club Coach (adults) C licence. All the above are SFA badges so aren't valid in England.

To be honest i am not as quailfied as yourself, main course for me is the basic level 1, also did a basic goalkeeper course at Ashburton not level 2 which i think iam right in saying is the entry level for keeper coaching,and a number of level 1 refreshers, had i stayed in club coaching would have gone on to do level 2,enjoyed the shift into scouting, even if the reaction of some club managers was less then helpful , i believe tufc brett is highest quailfied coach on here.

[Dave]

My initial thoughts were , there seemed to be a fair bit of scarmongering going on in the press, now i have done some digging around with the help of number of people i know involved in youth football in various ways, and levels, i think i now understand this ,of course i could be wrong but i feel my suspicions are pretty much confirmed, and this does appear to be scarmongering.

The scrapping of the tribunal system as Trojan correctly said does not apply to player 17 years old and above who have signed youth or full pro contracts, it only applies to schoolboy pro's 16 years and under.

The premiership already contribute money to the football league from there oversea's t.v money , ringfenced for youth development each club gets a share, other than Hereford and Morecambe who dont have youth systems, under this EPPP the premiership will put in, an extra £5.4 million, which as we know works out at £75k per club.

This money will extra to what is alreay received, if i have got this right a lot more F/L clubs will actually gain rather than lose, although i am not sure what catagory our youth system will be in, what i do know is our club is probaly some years away from developing a player who is likely to go to the the first, and a million miles away from developing a player that would interest any premiership club, so if i have this right our club would certainly gain from this.

I know it has been said in the media on variuos forums, however it is true, clubs like Man.U have had sucsessful youth development for years turning out many internationals, they are not going to all of a sudden change there youth polcies and send 100's of scouts out with a drag net, the biggest clubs have been taking lots of players for years, and as we know each seasons cull quite a few , through the exit trial system, many go on to have good lower league careers cant see that changing either.

We are not going to see any club go bust over this or wholesale youth academy closure's, as said the transfer systems for 17 years plus remains the same, and its very rare indeed for a player to be considered for the first team at 16 unless there are very talented indeed, and unheard of for a 15 year old player to be sent out on loan.

[Father Jack]

Agreed. I dont think it will have the effect that the various talking heads seem to think it will, certainly not at our level.

[Scottish Gull]

To be honest i am not as quailfied as yourself, main course for me is the basic level 1, also did a basic goalkeeper course at Ashburton not level 2 which i think iam right in saying is the entry level for keeper coaching,and a number of level 1 refreshers, had i stayed in club coaching would have gone on to do level 2,enjoyed the shift into scouting, even if the reaction of some club managers was less then helpful , i believe tufc brett is highest quailfied coach on here.

Although it may sound impressive i'll need my Level 3 (basic licence) before I can get anywhere near the 2nd/3rd divisions up here!! Thats were Scotland and England differ, up here you only need to be a level 1 gk coach to coach from youth to adult, you need your level 2! Eh I'd rather stick to Coaching as i see it as less stressful than being a scout! maybe get a Coaches Corner going But in all seriousness no matter what level you are its a bit of paper at the end of the day, saying yes you can or no you can't. PLus its you as a person not the qualification that makes you who you are!!