The past, present, our real natural level, club and fans

[Dave]

Firstly please forgive me, this thread is not meant to be a history lesson for anyone.

Over the last 20 years or so, as we know, the club has achieved what many would consider a great deal of success, with a number of Wembley trips, play-off and cup finals alike, however in terms of lower league success we have to look at a bygone era.

Info taken from Wiki so forgive if I have this wrong, it would appear that in both 1957 and 1968 our club came very close indeed to promotion to the Championship, and twice during the sixties enjoyed automatic promotion to league 1, in 1960 and 1966.

Our club stayed at that level until 71/72 when after it would appear the club were forced to sell its best players, the club no doubt experienced a drop in income, was this brought about by drop in attendances? Or a shift in the mentality of the club? As since then we have become more widely known as a struggling league 2 club.

This is one probably for our slightly older members, what is so different about Torquay united and why have the club never be been able to get back to the level it enjoyed through out the late 50’s and 60’s.

Over the last 40 years our club has spent most of it’s time in league 2, so some would say that is our natural level, is it? If we look at the number of former league clubs in the conference, how long they have been there, and some who maybe working of a bigger budget than us now, it scares me that our real natural level might be the conference now, as we talk once again about budget constraints.

Also think the club is caught up in ever decreasing circles, often hear fan’s say I wont go back until the club show ambition, however the club can not show the ambition it would like to with out the fan’s, come lets wake up, what sort of player budget do you think Martin Ling would be working off if our gates had been up around the 3500 plus mark.

Not having a pop at anyone here, more at us as a fan’s group, our friends up the road have had an awful start, there fan’s have got up a campaign to bring about a siege mentality, we hit a big slide and we react by crying that’s it never going again, who in the end will that harm?

Yes I know incomes are being squeezed like never before, and we want value for money, however we have spent a lot of time talking about what players are not good enough and what quality needs to be brought in, don’t we realise the only way the board can assist Lingy to that is if the gates hold up, I know its hard to keep the faith we been through these tough times all to often, if we stop going now, then us the fan’s are helping to condemn our own club to relegation.

What happened to , through thick and thin?

[hector]

Firstly please forgive me, this thread is not meant to be a history lesson for anyone.

Over the last 20 years or so, as we know, the club has achieved what many would consider a great deal of success, with a number of Wembley trips, play-off and cup finals alike, however in terms of lower league success we have to look at a bygone era.

Info taken from Wiki so forgive if I have this wrong, it would appear that in both 1957 and 1968 our club came very close indeed to promotion to the Championship, and twice during the sixties enjoyed automatic promotion to league 1, in 1960 and 1966.

Our club stayed at that level until 71/72 when after it would appear the club were forced to sell its best players, the club no doubt experienced a drop in income, was this brought about by drop in attendances? Or a shift in the mentality of the club? As since then we have become more widely known as a struggling league 2 club.

This is one probably for our slightly older members, what is so different about Torquay united and why have the club never be been able to get back to the level it enjoyed through out the late 50’s and 60’s.

Over the last 40 years our club has spent most of it’s time in league 2, so some would say that is our natural level, is it? If we look at the number of former league clubs in the conference, how long they have been there, and some who maybe working of a bigger budget than us now, it scares me that our real natural level might be the conference now, as we talk once again about budget constraints.

Also think the club is caught up in ever decreasing circles, often hear fan’s say I wont go back until the club show ambition, however the club can not show the ambition it would like to with out the fan’s, come lets wake up, what sort of player budget do you think Martin Ling would be working off if our gates had been up around the 3500 plus mark.

Not having a pop at anyone here, more at us as a fan’s group, our friends up the road have had an awful start, there fan’s have got up a campaign to bring about a siege mentality, we hit a big slide and we react by crying that’s it never going again, who in the end will that harm?

Yes I know incomes are being squeezed like never before, and we want value for money, however we have spent a lot of time talking about what players are not good enough and what quality needs to be brought in, don’t we realise the only way the board can assist Lingy to that is if the gates hold up, I know its hard to keep the faith we been through these tough times all to often, if we stop going now, then us the fan’s are helping to condemn our own club to relegation.

What happened to , through thick and thin?

I think you make some valid points.

My own place in this history lesson starts around 1979 when United had just spent their 6th season back in Division 4 most of which (had the system existed then) would have been spent competing for a play-off place. So I guess we had a spell from 1957 - 1972 when supporters had been used to challenging for a place in Division 2 as it was or at least were quite secure in Division 3 or the next 7 or 8 years where the club were trying to get back into Division 3 as it was then. In fact I remember the noises of 'trying to get back to our rightful place in Division 3' being mentioned in the press and programmes around the time.

This all probably changed around 1981/82 season and I remember this being mentioned on Match of the Day, when it was stated that the club was close to going out of business. from then on we had a chain of events - Rioch having to work on his own, kicking the shit out of Colin Anderson, Dave Webb, Bryn the police dog, that suddenly made it seem that we were 'lucky to be a league club' and that insecurity has existed ever since for supporters of TUFC, even though it was a notion that never concerned us really from 1927 until 1985.

Mike Bateson played on it expertly as it lowered expectations among supporters and made 'staying up' feel like an achievement. We were told we were 'punching above our weight' by playing in the league.

You are right in that there are so many of our former peers in the Conference but then again there are clubs who used to get gates smaller than ours playing in higher leagues e.g. Hartlepool, Scunthorpe, Bury, Colchester to name 4, so probably League 2 is our natural habitat. I do not accept that we are punching above our weight by playing league football, especially when clubs like Dagenham, Macclesfield, Accrington, Morecambe, Hereford, Barnet etc are in it

[tufcbrett]

I honestly feel league 2 is where the club will always be, yes i would love to be in league 1 one day. Last season was awsome because we got close, but now we are re building the club with the new stand, training ground and the rest behined in the back ground.

Would be nice to see the new stand and see the squad rebuild. We will be a league 2 side for a few years and who knows once the off field things are sorted we maybe able to push for league 1 again.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I am 35 and have been supporting the Gulls since 2004 and although we went up under Leroy, we came straight back down and then down again into the BSP. I believe we are a bottom half league 2 side based on crowd attendances, player budget, ground size and facilities, general infrastructure and aslo in terms of the calibre of player we are able to bring in (budget and geography play a part here). I don't think we will ever get any higher than league 1 in my lifetime, even another stint in league 1 now looks a pipe dream but you never know. If someone with some real money comes in ala Wigan who i remember going to watch Doncaster away with some mates in the 90's at Springfield Park and being sat on a grass embankment in a crowd of 3000 odd. Just shows what you can do with sustained money being thrown at a club. Wigan even then didn't have any real untapped fan base, much like ourselves so i think their model is much like our own if the scenario of a sugar daddy ever came in. There are a lot of clubs like Exeter, Stevenage, Bury, Yeovil that you could argue shouldn't even be in league 1 (especially Stevenage the b******s - i'm not bitter!), clubs like Blackpool and Doncaster that shouldn't even be in the championship and in our league Accrington, Dagenham, Barnet shouldn't be there. But there are clubs in the BSP who are traditional league clubs ( in my era ) like Mansfield, York, Grimsby, Stockport, Darlington. It saddens me that these clubs are in the position they are because they are true football league clubs with history and a decent fan base. I don't begrudge teams like Alfreton Town, Forest Green, Hayes & Yeading etc (need i go on?) the chance to play league football but it is just wrong on so many levels. Look at some of the teams we played in the BSP. Northwich, Lewes, Histon, Salisbury et al. Jesus it makes me feel ill thinking about it! I get that feeling when i go to Accrington. League 2 is our level, has been our level for the last couple of decades and will continue to be our level for the foreseeable future. One thing is for sure though. If we end up back in the BSP, we sure as hell ain't getting out again in a hurry.

[Wonderland]

I firstly apologise for this diatribe, but by way of being a very old ‘git’, I do care
My history with TUFC goes back to 1959 when I attended the first match with my granddad.
My Granddad who was then in his 50’s paid 2 shillings (10p) for his entry fee and mine was one shilling and three pence (7p). A programme was 2d (1p),and a bus fare from Shiphay to Plainmoor 6d (2.5p). The average working man’s wage was around £10.12/6 per week (10.62).
In those days enjoyed 6,000 + crowds. Then important matches, Boxing Day, Easter, and August Bank Holidays enjoyed even larger crowds. There was no New Years Day holidays then. I remember one Boxing Day in the mid sixties when there were 16,300 at Plainmoor to watch us play Argyle.
Also in those days Torbay was a very popular holiday area, and holiday makers quite often came along in August, September and May. This was before cheap package holidays overseas started in the mid 1960’s. This eroded the holiday trade where most secondary school pupils had summer jobs and unemployment was far less that the last 15 years.
Gradually the fan base dwindled to around 5,000 – and there was no live football other than the FA Cup Final or the occasional England International Match. Television until February 1963 was just one channel – BBC. ITV then came on line on that date before BBC2 joined in 1964 or 1965. We were almost the last area to receive ITV
There was no ne of European Distractions or the almost guaranteed menu of Manchester United / Chelsea to watch on the Television. If you wanted live football, you had to attend Plainmoor.
When I started in 1959 I was nine years old, and I can’t remember – or was I interested – who the Chairman was. I do know that Mr A J Boyce became Chairman in the early 60’s. I recall being relegated to Division 4 in my last year in junior and that I was sad.
We were a bit of a fortress at home in those days, but our away form was patchy. The gates went down to the 4,000 +.
During those days the deferential in Division One wages (now The Premiere) – was very small and all lower club managed to attract top players in the twilight of their careers. Today their wages are so high, they have no need to play at this level although they could probably buy the club for a play thing. In fact the players wages were not the very high values that today’s professionals enjoy. They were more closely aligned to a working class man.
Such players played for us such John Bond and Ken Brown of West Ham (the first an England B player, and the latter a full England Cap, George Allen Birmingham City.
Gordon Astall England Winger from Birmingham City, Dermot Curtis Eire Centre forward formerly of Ipswich Town, Robin Stubbs England U23,Jimmy Dunne Eire, Jimmy Holmes Eire, Tony Currie England, Tony Brown England, and Mike Filliery Chelsea.
Of course we enjoyed some high profile Cup Games – one memorable match against Tottenham once in 1965 when 21,000 packed into Plainmoor. We had to come to watch Welton Rovers in a Reserve game to get a ticket for that one. Over 6,000 turned up – some bought the tickets and went home – some stayed – but God didn’t it rain that day we all got soaked!
We were promoted again in my 4th year at Grammar school to Division 3.
Then in 1967 Frank O’ Farrell took over and we enjoyed quite a few weeks in the top two or three in Division Three (now Division 1). Crowds were often 7000 plus and once we were the only match on Match of The Day when we beat Bury to go top of the League. That day there were over 10,000 in the ground. We also had Friday Night Football – which was great and gave the local footballers a chance to attend and still play for their teams on the weekend.
But Mr O’Farrell after a few great seasons left for Leicester City.
We gradually slipped away then – and wages got better in the higher divisions, package holidays lot us summer time support. We moved towards 1973/4 winter of discontent.
The fall from grace is down to a number of items:-
1 Loss of holiday trade and higher unemployment – leaving less excess income available to pay to watch our wonderful game
2. The almost nightly menu of live football on television.
3 No longer attracting Premiership players due to their wealth and lack of need to carry on playing. This was quite exciting then to see the famous names plying their trade at our level. I do remember a former England Centre forward – Roy Bentley – playing against us for QPR at fullback!
4. The relationship between the cost of entry and take home pay wages. In the past football was less expensive. When I worked in London in 1973 I earned £1,800 per year – about £35.00 per week and took home about £28,00 per week. I used to watch Arsenal and the entrance to Arsenal was 30p!
5. General inflation and the fear of the future with job losses, nil bank interest receipt – well virtual.
6. High housing costs in comparison to income between then and now.
7. Ridiculous energy costs.

There you have it with apologies

Den

[bobby93]

Some interesting points. Adds a little context, especially for me seems as my TUFC journey began with a 3-3 draw at home to Crewe Alexandra in 1993. That game and result have pretty much set the tone for the ensuing 18 years!

[Glostergull]

I too have a long history wth the Gulls. Some say I was around when the grandstand was moved from the racecourse. some say I was Robin Stubbs love child. All I know is I am called the Glostergull (sorry guys I know crap jokes again)
There are many factors listed above that have contributed to our downfall. One not mentioned and I do wonder why is, The negative feel created by Hooligans way back in the dark days of the 1970's. This reared it's ugly head and took 30 odd years to sort out. In some cases I still hasn't been sorted, The fact of the matter is that I personaly know of many fans who still think of football as a place to go if you want trouble. We are unfortunatly still all tarred with the same brush despite Torquay not really seeing any problems. and it hasn't been helped with fairly recent spats with local clubs in recent history. re. Trouble at Bristol when some so called fans went on a rampage down Gloucester Road when Torquay last Played Rovers in league 2 pre 2008. Witness the larger Police presense when we have Argyle and Exeter at Plainmoor. I fear that is also the attitude of the council toward our club and I know it prevails towards many other league clubs from their local councils as well.
Why would a local who has hardly ever set foot in Plainmoor want to get out of his nice warm comfy armchair and freeze his knackers off paying a pretty hefty wedge to watch his local club when he can sit at home and watch Manure on TV. mind you there are a couple of our own on this board who would have you believe we play that all the time and always have.
Couple that with the miriad of other atractions to our kids today. andthe high wages that Premier league children get for just turning up which has caused a filtering down of higher wages to lower clubs and much less attendance of those highly paid prima donnas playing at lower league clubs. (which goes someway to showing how much they love football. NOT!) The Chances of these players like Roooooney playing at Accrington or Oldham when they are 33 plus is so remote that I am more likely to be chairman of The Gulls next year and play in the FA Cup final for Torquay United scoring the winning goal. And I bet brucie would still be on here moaning his head off that we are crap.
We are lower league. in the way the league is now structured we will probably never climb to the dizzy heights of the championship. we may never even get promoted again. and if the present proposals for academies comes about we will be lucky to find much of a team to even stay afloat. The premier league is drowning the rest of fooltball.

[stefano]

Excellent post Wonderland. As somebody just a couple of years younger than you I had been intending to do quite a long post but won't now as you have really covered the bulk of what I would have said. There are a couple of minor errors date wise but that is only to be expected when reviewing events over a long period of time off the top of your head (for example O'Farrell arrived in 1965 not 1967 replacing Eric Webber and won us promotion from Division 4 in his first season).

Many of the crowd were youngsters / teenagers in those days and most of the adults had been introduced to the club as youngsters, so the point about there not being so many other things to do in those days is well made. I suppose it's not actually things to do, as we always found things to do, but fewer distractions. Few families had a television set when I was a kid, the computers that existed took up a large room, for those with a tv there was only one channel and no football to watch, and of course no mobile phones. If you hadn't made a prior arrangement to meet up with your friends you walked or if a posh kid went on your bike around all the local parks until you found them. There was always a ball involved when meeting up in the local park and kids who weren't any good at football still joined in as it was what youngsters did.

The interest in football had to be local as there was nothing else to watch. Lots of youngsters would be at the Recreation Ground watching Newton Abbot Spurs as not only was a football match going on but you would know that if you went there on a Saturday afternoon you would meet up with friends. The same applied with Plainmoor with youngsters meeting up to travel together to the ground.

No 24 hour tv and no televised football, no mobile phones, no I-Pads, no social networking sites, no replica football shirts, no computer games. What was one to do with ones time? Play and watch football was the main activity, although that isn't to say there was nothing else but it involved the open air, climbing trees, playing conkers, exploring canals and railway yards, fishing (for some I found it boring but still went along as friends did it), hay making on a local farm, building dens in barns and hedgerows).

Different times, different interests, and it has had a knock on effect on the fortunes of lower league and non-league football clubs.

As to forever's question about where fans saw the club, in the early 1960's it was definitely at the League 1 equivalent. After some good seasons in Division 3 (South) when the North and South regional league were turned in to the equivalent of League 1 and League 2 by taking the top half of North and South for League 1 and the bottom half of each for League 2, we had a very bad season and ended up in League 2 (then Division 4). However the strong belief was that we were rightfully a League 1 (Division 3 club), and that was re-inforced when it took only 2 seasons to get promoted. However it took only 2 seasons to come back down again, and then 4 seasons to get promoted again. Once up though we then stayed for 6 seasons coming very close to another promotion, and once relegated most fans thought it would be only a season or 2 before we went up again to our rightful place. Most fans therefore would have regarded us as a League 1 (equivalent) club right up probably until the late 70's.

We didn't bounce straight back and now having basically had 40 years in League 2 (equivalent) with 2 one season promotions and 1 two seasons relegation I think most fans would firmly regard us as a League 2 club.

Well a longer post than I intended at the start. Wonderland made most of the points I had intended to put forward but as I was typing the completely unco-ordinated thoughts just kept arriving totally out of control!! =D

[Father Jack]

Nice recollections there guys. As a bit of a 'noob' only going back to the early 70's, I would have to agree that our natural level is where we are now. We have the occasional excitement of promotion, set against the despair of relegation. We can usually be found at either end of the division with 4 or 5 matches to go, no comfortable mid table berth for us. Thats the way it has been through my time following the Gulls and I dont expect it to change any day soon.
As already said, we had less distractions then. Many a day I would spend 3 or 4 hours kicking a ball around with a few friends in the park, 2 a side, 3 a side, rush goalies etc etc.
I fear those days are well and truly gone now and we have to compete with so much alternative entertainment, it will always be an uphilll battle to maintain interest and increase following at a lower level club.

[bobby93]

I think it also has something to do with the fact that a lot of people currently living in Torbay weren't born here and have no real connection to the area and specifically the team. I have genuinely no problem with that kind of migration, I have no deep seated hatred towards out-of-towners whatsoever, but the last few years have seen a lot of people move here from bigger cities such as Liverpool and Birmingham. Obviously if they are football fans already, they are quite likely to be fans of teams from those areas, and couple with that the greater availability of top flight football on TV, those people, if they have kids, quite often aren't likely to encourage their kids to go see the local team as opposed to following in their dad/mum's footsteps and picking a bigger club who they can see just as easily as TUFC, albeit not in the flesh (does that even matter to a lot of kids?). I think attracting kids is one of the big areas where we need to improve, not just as a football club but the lower leagues in general.

I think people have made that point already but I just wanted to add my thoughts. I may also be talking rubbish but it's the impression I get a lot of the time.

[stefano]

No you are not talking rubbish Bobby93 as the origins of the population is a factor, but it is not a new phenomenon. Torbay has always been an attractive place to retire for people from all over the country, and when I was working in Torbay in the late 1960's and throughout the 1970's the area was full of younger Scousers, Mancunians, Brummies, and Glaswegians generally working in things like the hotel and tourism industry or unemployed. Back in the 50's and 60's though Plainmoor did attract quite a lot of the 'imports' who did already support teams 'up country', and I would say generally that was because football on television was a rarity and of course transport links weren't as good so going 'back home' to see their home town team wasn't an easy option. There were few motorways, so when I went on the supporters bus for an end of season game at Darlington we left Newton Abbot at 8pm on the Friday for a 3pm Saturday kick off. These days you could safely leave at 8am on the Saturday morning to get there for kick off.

Not that supporters of other teams do travel 'back home' now though. They just buy the replica shirt and stand in a pub shouting at the television screen!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Bobby is right about the kids of Liverpool. Chelsea, Man Utd, Birmingham fans who live in torbay supporting those clubs because its just the way it is in the family. The cost, comfort and simplicity with which these kids can watch their teams in the premiershit makes this easy. I bet many kids have never ever seen their idols in a live game and savoured the gift from God that is a matchday. Many are not likely to in the near future either due to costs, not being able to get a ticket and just plain glory hunting can't be arsed attitude ( amazing how many kids wearing Man City shirts i see on the streets of my town when for the last 10 years of living here i haven't seen any). That said, i don't want to slag the parents off as i will be trying to mould my 2 and half year old into a rounded Torquay fan and we live in Chesterfield! Going by Bobbys argument , my kid should really be supporting Chesterfield and be encouraged to do so by me but thats just not going to happen. Obviously as a kid and at school you often go to your local clubs games with mates for a laugh even though you don't support them. I had many a bruising night on the popside of the old Belle Vue ground watching Donny Rovers in the late 80's early 90's i can tell you! Some kids will deviate and decide to support their local team because they are easily accessible and they can enjoy live football and the experience of a matchday. I truly believe that if the club wants to get kids involved in TUFC then they should be flooding schools in the area with regular offers of free tickets, kids for a quid, get players in there giving talks, all sorts of initiatives can be implemented. Hey, the guys and gals at the club are probably already doing this i don't know, i don't live in the bay. Just a thought.

[Sesimbra]

This has been an interesting subject and the postings by wonderland and stefano are right on the mark. I supported Torquay in the 50s and everything I would have said has been said.
In general however I feel that it is only a matter of time before all the smaller league clubs become part-time due to the dominance of the Premier clubs. There is little sentiment for the small clubs and some will certainly go out of business due to lack of support and financial backing. This is sad but until the big clubs recognise that they are destroying the fabric of the game with their extortionate salaries and preponderance of overseas players the rot will continue. You only have to look at the ex-league clubs, many with bigger attendances than Torquay, languishing in the Conference as an illustration

[diamondgirl]

Iconnection to the area and specif think it also has something to do with the fact that a lot of people currently living in Torbay weren't born here and have no real ically the team. I have genuinely no problem with that kind of migration, I have no deep seated hatred towards out-of-towners whatsoever, but the last few years have seen a lot of people move here from bigger cities such as Liverpool and Birmingham. Obviously if they are football fans already, they are quite likely to be fans of teams from those areas, and couple with that the greater availability of top flight football on TV, those people, if they have kids, quite often aren't likely to encourage their kids to go see the local team as opposed to following in their dad/mum's footsteps and picking a bigger club who they can see just as easily as TUFC, albeit not in the flesh (does that even matter to a lot of kids?). I think attracting kids is one of the big areas where we need to improve, not just as a football club but the lower leagues in general.

I think people have made that point already but I just wanted to add my thoughts. I may also be talking rubbish but it's the impression I get a lot of the time.

I was not born here in the bay. We moved to Devon in August 2004. My husband, son (Ferrarilover) and myself have always been football lovers (Me for 45 of my 55 years here on this Earth) We started going to Plainmoor in the 04/05 season and have not looked back. We are very commited to the club and travel home and away. (With Wondeland, as it happens. Good post, by the way Den).

I do think that the problem with getting the younger generation to support TUFC is the attention that the premiership gets from the media coupled with the lack of it for lower division clubs. You only have to watch the football league show on a Sat. night to see what I'm talking about. League 2. All wrapped up in 7/8 mins. Just not good enough. It's no suprise that the kids are running about in Man U/C/ Arsenal/Chelsea shirts. The media should be paying less attention to the prima donnas of the premiership and more to the struggling clubs in the lower divisions (Not creepy crawley thought!!)

[Glostergull]

This has been an interesting subject and the postings by wonderland and stefano are right on the mark. I supported Torquay in the 50s and everything I would have said has been said.
In general however I feel that it is only a matter of time before all the smaller league clubs become part-time due to the dominance of the Premier clubs. There is little sentiment for the small clubs and some will certainly go out of business due to lack of support and financial backing. This is sad but until the big clubs recognise that they are destroying the fabric of the game with their extortionate salaries and preponderance of overseas players the rot will continue. You only have to look at the ex-league clubs, many with bigger attendances than Torquay, languishing in the Conference as an illustration

There are those who want to look at our club as an exception.
We are crap, no good, lacking in ambition etc. We have what we have because of the resources given to us. So many times in the past I have seen the same boring posts accusing but not actuay coming up with the answer or getting off their backsides and helping themselves.
But step back a minute and look at the facts. Most of the things promoted in the past have been tried and they failed. We as fans didn't help much either. I have always done what I could but living a long way away it is not easy promoting the club in Torquay. So I promote them in Gloucestershire as best I can and Chris does what he can with the web site.
Look at clubs who are a lot bigger than us. Bradford City. Yes they get 10,000 plus but only because they practicaly give their tickets away. And have they got anywhere yet. NO.
Cambridge. Wrexham. Grimsby. All arguably bigger than us from a fan base perspective, Luton Town. Huge by our measure. all languishing in the BSP. Last seasons surprise relegation candidate Licoln City Now in danger of going into the Blue Sqaure South or North. both with larger crowds when in our division and within a better radius of geography to attract players. is it any wonder we are a minnow struggling to survive.
The world is changing at a pace which we are struggling to cope with. All of football is hiding in the sand pretending the reccession is not happening. And we are expected to still compete. We are in the most sever depression since the 1930's and with the top clubs spending as if the money tree is still printing money, we as the minnows will be pushed to stay with them spending as if it will work. The financial system is in complete melt down.
Yes it helps if we have the messiah leading us to the promised land but those sort of people are few and far between. I bet no one in the South West could really tell me who the person is who will lead us into the Championship. No it's impossible. We cannot know what the future holds. We can only try our best. Non of those who would decry our boards efforts would do what our board has done. yes they make mistakes, Show me someone who doesn't. Although some on our forum bahave as if they don't.
If we have the wrong guy and who's to say we have or haven't. We have to let him do what he can now he is here. I will support him to the hilt while he is here. It is to early and way too expensive to replace him. Yes we could sack him, but if we did and he is paid off where does the money come from to replace him. There isn't any. We haven't that sort of budget.
I do know one thing for sure. If I had won the lottery I would have severe doubts about putting my money into a football club, only for some of you to constantly expect me to use it to subsidise their hobby. For that is essentialy what is comes down to. We expect without thinking who we expect to pay for it.