A few musings

[Plymouth Gull]

Firstly, I apologise for what will no doubt be a big post with alot of little things in there - I'll try and arrange it so its easy to follow and pick apart (if theres any bits you disagree with or whatever). Also, I apologise for the post being a bit out of date - the most part of it was written before the game on Saturday, and I can't go through and change it all, so sorry about that.

Anyway, the lack of a sell out for what was our first game against the Greens for a decade is something I find frankly shocking, from us, as supporters. I've been thinking about why this scenario has happened, and I've come up with 5 reasons or so - some are slightly overlapping each other;

1. Lack of news regarding game/ticket information for supporters.

How many sources of news do we have regarding TUFC? The official site springs to mind as the only one, where you can get information fairly quickly. The national sites such as the BBC/Sky Sports are a bit behind as I assume they see the stuff from the OS before writing their own article. Another source is through this forum and TFF, but alot of people don't have the time of day to spend half an hour or so perusing the internet to find the latest.

Personally, I believe this problem is because of one reason, it's been mentioned alot, but the loss of a daily newspaper has hurt the club. It was one outlet which seemed to be fairly well received through the Bay, Newton Abbot and surrounding areas. It was just something that people could read once they finished work or whatever - it gave information regarding the next game, prices, offers, and general ticket details. Since the paper reverted to a weekly basis, it has been harder to find information about the latest goings-on at Plainmoor, unless you have time to look on the Official Site. I've also noticed that sometimes articles go missing on the OS, so you have to look around trying to find it. I believe the reason it changed to a weekly paper was because they couldn't run a daily one anymore - okay, but how about a paper 2/3 times a week? That way you aren't being told about things that happened in the past, or that are happening next week but by that time you may have forgotten. We don't get the Herald anymore because it's not fresh news. By the time it comes out on Thursday I've already read reports from Saturdays game - I don't want to re-read it all again.

Anyway, moving on.

2. Misleading information from the Club.

The Club has been giving the impression that there was a "few" tickets remaining for todays game, so when it was said there were as many as 500 left, it shocked most of us. "Few" is a term used loosely, but surely if they wanted to maximise sales they should have been sending a message out saying "we've plenty left so no rush" or whatever. I take "few" to be less than 150/200, not 500. Also, it seems that because the Club implied that there weren't many left, people backed out of buying them because they thought they wouldn't get there in time, before the remaining tickets sold.

3. People expecting to Pay on the Gate.

Again, slightly overlapping the lack of news from the Club area, really. Many of the 'floaters' didn't know it was all-ticket because there is no media outlet to see this. I must admit, I've rarely even seen it mentioned on the OS whenever I've looked on there. This stops people coming because it means that the ones who don't decide until late - whether thats because they don't know if they can go because of work or whatever, end up missing out.

4. Limited choice of where to go.

As I understand it, the Family Stand will be full for this afternoon. That's a positive. But that may stop a few fans turning up. With no Grandstand, meaning we only have one side of seating, and with that full, people who don't want to stand on the Pop may give it a miss. We can't blame the Club for that one really, because obviously once Bristows Bench is done we'll have a tidy little ground. It's just unfortunate that we can only hold 3 sides full for a game of this magnitude.

5. People don't want to make two journeys.

Supporters who don't live local to Plainmoor who need to take a fair bit of time to get to the ground won't bother buying tickets in advance as much, I feel. There are a few reasons for this. If they don't finish work until 5 then I'd imagine people won't fancy wasting time stuck in traffic on the Kingskerswell road to go and pickup tickets. Another reason for this is with petrol being so expensive, they may want to restrict how many journeys they do, so as to try and get as much out of a tank as they can. Also, the fact that we haven't had a home game since the tickets have been on general sale probably hasn't helped matters, really. No game at Plainmoor for three weeks means that people haven't been able to tie a journey in watching the game and getting their tickets, which is out of the clubs hands once again.

So, theres the 5 reasons I've thought of and seen mentioned on here. There are solutions to most of them, in my opinion.

For example, in order to get up-to-date information out to supporters all around Devon and beyond, what if the Club set up a little E-newsletter sort of thing. Just a page that is sent 2/3 times per week, giving details such as;

- Next home game, time, opposition etc.
- Prices
- Any deals
- Number of tickets remaining (more so for the Family Stand)
- Other key information that interests the floating supporters.

It only needs a short, concise page that is sent out through email, giving the fans the latest information. Perhaps a Monday/Wednesday/Friday sort of thing, just so that the club are advertising things better and more. Everybody tends to use email these days, and I'm sure the club have a few supporters' details already (through the Supporters Trust, perhaps), but it can't hurt to do such a thing. Once the club advertises itself better than the current, then it is down to the people to get themselves along to Plainmoor. The Club needs to be in a position where people can't find things to moan at - lack of advertisement, etc, and I feel a little thing like this would go some way to fixing that problem.

Now I've mentioned ticket offers, I'll move on to my next point.

I believe the Club find it difficult to experiment with ticket deals and offers, for fear of losing ST holders. I understand that around 50% of our average support is made up of Season Ticket holders, perhaps even more than that. This got me wondering, how would you, as a Season Ticket holder, feel if the Club started doing more offers to draw in the floating fans? I'll do a poll on here to make it easy to follow, but if the majority of ST holders are happy for the Club to try different deals then they should definately try it.

They could even try and help ST holders aswell with some perks - for example you could get a half price kids ticket per adult ST holder, or something like that.

The Club needs to market itself more than just the official site - which seems our only up to date news outlet. Everybody uses email these days, so surely a little twice/3-times weekly e-newsletter wouldn't go amiss. That way at least the Club are getting the information out there - letting everyone know when the next games are.

Again, apologies for the long post.

[Plymouth Gull]

Early votes suggest that people wouldn't mind the club trialling things - which is good, but then theres only been 7 votes which is hardly representative of our fanbase! It is difficult for the club and I know that they dont like doing many ticket offers for fear that season ticket holders will feel unrewarded so it really is a difficult decision for the club - thats why I brought it up.

[Dave]

Was going to post on this last night however unable to get on the net, i am surprised more people have not replied to this, A.Candy is a member on here and the club do read these boards, this is a good chance to have your say.

I dont want to come down on the club here, there is a feel good factor around the place which we are all enjoying, and the club are trying so hard to improve as we can see, fair play to them for that, however i think the marketing of our club is a bit of a joke to honest.

There was an idea floating around to give fan's the option of having advertising displayed around there houses, think ti was called "united at Plainmoor", i believe it was blocked as it would step on the toe's of our commercial dept, hmmm, what commercial dept.

the Internet is such a powerful tool, our club needs to catch on to this, I and most others i should imagine receive countless spam e-mails every day, offering phone service packages, gas/electric offers etc, etc, get the e-newsletter going again, i only received 3 e-mails from the club in the last god know how many months.

Collect e-mail addresses, send promotional codes for the match day carvery, what about the Sunday carvery do we still do that, advertise it if we do, send out promotional codes for that, stop waiting for the local people to come to you, go to your local people.

[AustrianAndyGull]

If i had my own business i would be busting a gut to get my message out there, like you say forever - go to the people who may be potential customers / fans. Don't wait for them to ome to you. What Torquay do is pure laziness and displays an abhorrent lack of business acumen. Clubs like us need extra income to survive, we can't sell millions of replica shirts to the japanese like Man Utd so we have to be on the ball and come up with lots of other innovative ideas to generate revenue. Once we have done that we have to get out there and let people know about these initiatives. There are loads of interesting, fun and interactive ways of promoting our club to the different demographics of the area but our commercial dept don't have any ideas and like to run with the usual unsuccessful ideas. Worked v Plymouth not! It is annoying as its not really rocket science. If we stick with the tried and tested then we are just standing still.

[cambgull]

I'm going to hark on about the same thing brought up many times before but it doesn't make it any less valid.

Online ticket system.

Pro's:
-Easier to purchase tickets before a game.
-Very easy way to get emails, addresses, names, phone numbers to then send information to.
-Less chance of getting the information wrong as it'll be entered by the user.
-Easier for exiles to spread payments over time, buying tickets in advance and then paying for petrol on the day. More likely to spend money in the shop, especially if they can spread it around a pay day.
-Information regarding all-ticket games can be displayed easily and permanently in view by clicking at maximum about 3 clicks.

Con's:
-It'll cost at maximum a grand for a developer to write and install it.
-A whole .com domain would have to be bought and hosted.
-It might take a couple hours to show all 2 people who might need to work on it how to use the back end system.

Frankly, if it doesn't pay for itself in 6 months I'll pay for it myself.

[A Candy]

Good Morning,
Thank you for the interesting and useful comments and suggestions. I agree with most of what has been suggested in terms of the need for additional and less traditional ways of reaching out to supporters and in particular "the floaters". Various marketing and promotional initiatives have been tried already in terms of ticketing deals,targeted promotions,match day advertising board at the DGM roundabout on the main Torquay-Newton Abbot road,Focus Group etc. We are hoping to undertake a poster campaign ( see website for more details in the next week or so) with my plan to saturate local towns with posters and leaflets for shopkeepers,businesses, noticeboards etc to display a generic TUFC poster. Help will be needed with this if we are going to cover all towns stretching from Brixham to Dawlish so again watch the website for more details.
We have made some initial enquiries about on line ticket sales and have been advised to wait until the Grandstand is built so that we can sell tickets for all sections of the ground. I agree that this is needed and hopefully we will see this develop for next season,cost permitting.
Finally,for information rather than appearing to be defensive,its wrong to think about the Club having "departments" as the reality is that we only have one person doing each of the main functions at the Club.
Thank you again for your comments.
Regards,
Andrew

[wodger of awabia]

I'm going to hark on about the same thing brought up many times before but it doesn't make it any less valid.

Online ticket system.

Pro's:
-Easier to purchase tickets before a game.
-Very easy way to get emails, addresses, names, phone numbers to then send information to.
-Less chance of getting the information wrong as it'll be entered by the user.
-Easier for exiles to spread payments over time, buying tickets in advance and then paying for petrol on the day. More likely to spend money in the shop, especially if they can spread it around a pay day.
-Information regarding all-ticket games can be displayed easily and permanently in view by clicking at maximum about 3 clicks.

Con's:
-It'll cost at maximum a grand for a developer to write and install it.
-A whole .com domain would have to be bought and hosted.
-It might take a couple hours to show all 2 people who might need to work on it how to use the back end system.

Frankly, if it doesn't pay for itself in 6 months I'll pay for it myself.

I agree,
Order & pay online for tickets, items from the shop & pre match catering, & print your own receipt/voucher.
The arguement that away fans could get tickets is not valid, as they can already phone the club, pay by card, & collect on the day, the club have no way of telling if you are a TQY fan or an away fan just trying to see the match, just because you speak with an up country accent, & live out of Devon does not mean that you are not a fan...........Good Plan!!

[budleigh]

There was an idea floating around to give fan's the option of having advertising displayed around there houses, think to was called "united at Plainmoor", i believe it was blocked as it would step on the toe's of our commercial dept.

This was an idea that I and Mark Boyce came up with during one of our meetings as part of the Gulls Marketing Group. It is a terrific idea and a lot of work went into costings and design having approached sign makers, as well as finally getting enough people to take on the campaign and make it viable. We were almost ready to go not only with the 'estate agent' boards but bill boards set up in land coming into Torquay and on various buildings.
Before this, and other ideas, could be implemented the club decided to set up another 'marketing arm' making our group somewhat redundant. This seemed a sensible idea as it allowed more time than we volunteers could give to the whole area of marketing.
Unfortunately no one from this new group got in touch regarding any of the initiatives already worked on which is a great shame as a lot of spade work that could've been utilised had already been undertaken by myself and the others in the group. For instance, taking the 'United at Plainmoor' idea aside, alot of time and effort had been given with the local schools in adopting a senior player, plus a reserve or youth player, as their own. This player would make visits to the host school, have a kick around and take the odd coaching session. The hard work had already been done in getting this set up but that seems to have all gone to waste.

[MidDevon]

I went to Home Park for the Stourbridge match and as a very occassional visitor had tremendous difficulty finding out "what to do". Where to get our tickets, where in the ground we would be and where to go. I had only ever been in the away end before.

The signage around Home Park was poor and the staff could not even tell me where in the ground we would be sitting. When we got to the turnstiles we found we could have paid on the gate anyway.

The match was advertised as £10 tickets, which was enough to make me go to the game, but I left with a very poor impression.

I think the work Andrew and the club have done on improving signage around the ground, at the ticket office, and staffing outside the ground is quite superb and gives a totally different image to that I had at Home Park last week where there were no signs and no staff to offer help for the new visitor. Andrew himself was leading from the front for the Argyle match which was the first time I have seen this at Plainmoor and juding by the number of questions he was answering, I think his time was very well spent.

I think the priority of improving all of this (in pretty quick time considering the resources available) should be commended as there seems little point in welcoming new fans to Plainmoor without an organised and friendly welcome awaiting them when they do decide to come.

On the point of season ticket holders, I for one, do not buy my ticket so save money. I buy it to ensure that I get the same seat for every game and am with the same group of people and also because Mrs Mid Devon never gives me enough pocket money on a weekly basis!

I would however like the club to "trust" it's season ticket holders more e.g allow us to bring a friend to an evening match in January or February for half price or even for free. The fear from the board of directors being that we would just give the oportunity to those who would normally go of course, but I think if properly launched many season ticket holders would bring someone different along.

[A Candy]

Thank you Mid Devon for your kind words. I also like your idea about season ticket holders bringing a friend at half price and will raise this with the Chairman when he comes in tomorrow.
Regards,
Andrew

[royalgull]

Just having a look on the official site today and they've done a deal where you can buy a ticket for any game at the same price, I suppose it's for a xmas present to the TUFC fan in your family. They might sell a few but I doubt that's going to do THAT well considering there is no financial saving and you can just pick one up on the gate anyway at any match.

This isn't neccesarily a pop at TUFC but football general, since when did it become acceptable to charge people (in this current financial climate) £17 to stand on a terrace and watch Division 4 football? That is truly insane. Like i say this isn't exclusive to TUFC there are some in this league higher than that but for me that's a ridiculous starting point. I appreciate our capacity and lack of seating means behind the goal are the only seats available now, but the 'Family Stand' is £19 an adult. Right lets say a couple and their two kids inhabit the Family Stand that is £50 for those 4 just to get into the ground to watch Torquay play Macclesfield. When you then factor in the kids factor which means they'll want a programme, maybe a scarf or something from the shop, a coke and all that jazz you are looking at around £70 for the day. That is completely ludicrous. That's also saying the two kids are under 16, Not ridiculous to suggest there are folk out there that do this on occasions who might have a 16 year old and and a 10 year old for example, stick another £4 onto that.

We rightly talk about the cold shoulder the club gets from the local community, the club could do more at times I agree but ultimately it is down to the local community to come and support it's football club. But this is Division 4 football, it's the lowest form of professional football in this country and as such the games don't have that much real quality on show. That's the way it is, that's no ones fault and usually at this level you get cloe competitive football. But is that fictional family I mentioned really going to want to pay between £50-70 every week to see it? When people are generally struggling for employment and especially for disposable income. I think not.

No one's money has gone up yet the cost for everything seems to be escalating beyond control, football needs to get it's house in order...quickly and live in the real world like everyone else has to. League 2 Football and a terrace as well should be an absolute maximum of about £12/13.

[Dave]

Many thanks for your reply A.Candy , it is fantastic to hear our club are about to become more visible around the area, something we all argee is important.

Thanks for reminding me of that idea Budliegh, is there any chance of the club/ focus group adpoting that idea, i thought at the time thats was a good idea , and one thing that all us fan's can do to help advertise the club around the bay/Newton Abbot etc.

Some great idea's have come upp on this thread already, and agree the signage around the groud does give a greater professional appearence to Plainmoor.

[yellow]

This was an idea that I and Mark Boyce came up with during one of our meetings as part of the Gulls Marketing Group. It is a terrific idea and a lot of work went into costings and design having approached sign makers, as well as finally getting enough people to take on the campaign and make it viable. We were almost ready to go not only with the 'estate agent' boards but bill boards set up in land coming into Torquay and on various buildings.
Before this, and other ideas, could be implemented the club decided to set up another 'marketing arm' making our group somewhat redundant. This seemed a sensible idea as it allowed more time than we volunteers could give to the whole area of marketing.
Unfortunately no one from this new group got in touch regarding any of the initiatives already worked on which is a great shame as a lot of spade work that could've been utilised had already been undertaken by myself and the others in the group. For instance, taking the 'United at Plainmoor' idea aside, alot of time and effort had been given with the local schools in adopting a senior player, plus a reserve or youth player, as their own. This player would make visits to the host school, have a kick around and take the odd coaching session. The hard work had already been done in getting this set up but that seems to have all gone to waste.

Sounds like an excellent idea bud. Good name as well.

So is it sleeping awaiting revival, or is it dead?

Can you not bring it to the attention of the new marketing group?

I do hope it does not get sacrificed on the altar of organisational ‘internal politics’.

[MidDevon]

Just having a look on the official site today and they've done a deal where you can buy a ticket for any game at the same price, I suppose it's for a xmas present to the TUFC fan in your family. They might sell a few but I doubt that's going to do THAT well considering there is no financial saving and you can just pick one up on the gate anyway at any match.

This isn't neccesarily a pop at TUFC but football general, since when did it become acceptable to charge people (in this current financial climate) £17 to stand on a terrace and watch Division 4 football? That is truly insane. Like i say this isn't exclusive to TUFC there are some in this league higher than that but for me that's a ridiculous starting point. I appreciate our capacity and lack of seating means behind the goal are the only seats available now, but the 'Family Stand' is £19 an adult. Right lets say a couple and their two kids inhabit the Family Stand that is £50 for those 4 just to get into the ground to watch Torquay play Macclesfield. When you then factor in the kids factor which means they'll want a programme, maybe a scarf or something from the shop, a coke and all that jazz you are looking at around £70 for the day. That is completely ludicrous. That's also saying the two kids are under 16, Not ridiculous to suggest there are folk out there that do this on occasions who might have a 16 year old and and a 10 year old for example, stick another £4 onto that.

We rightly talk about the cold shoulder the club gets from the local community, the club could do more at times I agree but ultimately it is down to the local community to come and support it's football club. But this is Division 4 football, it's the lowest form of professional football in this country and as such the games don't have that much real quality on show. That's the way it is, that's no ones fault and usually at this level you get cloe competitive football. But is that fictional family I mentioned really going to want to pay between £50-70 every week to see it? When people are generally struggling for employment and especially for disposable income. I think not.

No one's money has gone up yet the cost for everything seems to be escalating beyond control, football needs to get it's house in order...quickly and live in the real world like everyone else has to. League 2 Football and a terrace as well should be an absolute maximum of about £12/13.

.....and that of course is the simple reason why the vast majority of league 2 grounds are a third full every week

[exilegull]

No one's money has gone up yet the cost for everything seems to be escalating beyond control, football needs to get it's house in order...quickly and live in the real world like everyone else has to. League 2 Football and a terrace as well should be an absolute maximum of about £12/13.

That would be a 25% drop in prices which requires a 33% increase in attendances to break even. Do you think that is likely? Should the club do it even if results in an overall drop in income for the club?