Wow.

[happytorq]

I've said before that although it's sad for the fans of clubs that their team is at risk, sooner or later a team needs to go out of business to serve as a lesson to everybody else. It's not fair on companies that are owed by such clubs that they lose out.

If that sounds harsh, then I'm sorry, but I'd feel the same way if it had happened to us with Roberts around. That's the exact reason that we as fans have an obligation to ensure that our clubs do not fall into the hands of unscrupulous types just out to make a quick buck.

[Glostergull]

I've said before that although it's sad for the fans of clubs that their team is at risk, sooner or later a team needs to go out of business to serve as a lesson to everybody else. It's not fair on companies that are owed by such clubs that they lose out.

If that sounds harsh, then I'm sorry, but I'd feel the same way if it had happened to us with Roberts around. That's the exact reason that we as fans have an obligation to ensure that our clubs do not fall into the hands of unscrupulous types just out to make a quick buck.

Oh yes? And just how do you think your going to do that.
I know our club is at the moment well run but if the present board decided for some reason that they had to move on. Say we had a couple of bad seasons and some of you.(You know who you are) decided to hurl personal abuse at the chairman and board. They would soon get fed up with it. they would be looking to get rid of their shares and would have to sell to whoever would buy them.
There is no way in the world we have the money as fans to buy them out. Unless Happy you have had a big lottery win and didn't tell us. We are then at the mercy of whoever owns the shares. If they want to or for some reason like Delusion (havn't we heard that before?) bring the club down there is very little we can do.
If our present board hadn't had the money we wouldn't exist right now. So be a bit more realistic in what you say we have an obligation to. We can support all we like but we don't own or have any real say in what happens.

[wodger of awabia]

Look I have already said above that I feel sorry for the loyal Darlo fans, but just like in war it's the hoi polli that suffer.
I.M.O. Darlington are a cancer of the back of British football & must be cut away. This is the third time in nine years that the club have defaulted.

They started this season with a full time squad of pro footballers knowing full well that they would not have the funds to pay them.

They cheated points away from other BSP teams that employed inferior players that they could afford.

The owe £1.2M, £200k to the BSP & £1m to small local businesses who will now possibly go bankrupt & have to put local Darlington workers on the dole.

Darlo players, admin staff, casual matchday staff & their families will all suffer & will find it very difficult to make ends meet.

What makes Darlo so special that they don't have to obey the normal conventions of business & common decency?

Rant over ...........Have a nice day!

[ferrarilover]

To continue the analogy: what if someone else buys a car they can't afford, but when he defaults on the payments the bailiffs come to YOUR home and take your car, tv, jewellery, dog as payment. Is that fair?

Matt.

[happytorq]

Oh yes? And just how do you think your going to do that.

<cheapshot>With correct use of "you're"? </cheapshot> (I can't help it)

I know our club is at the moment well run but if the present board decided for some reason that they had to move on. Say we had a couple of bad seasons and some of you.(You know who you are) decided to hurl personal abuse at the chairman and board. They would soon get fed up with it. they would be looking to get rid of their shares and would have to sell to whoever would buy them.
There is no way in the world we have the money as fans to buy them out. Unless Happy you have had a big lottery win and didn't tell us. We are then at the mercy of whoever owns the shares. If they want to or for some reason like Delusion (havn't we heard that before?) bring the club down there is very little we can do.
If our present board hadn't had the money we wouldn't exist right now. So be a bit more realistic in what you say we have an obligation to. We can support all we like but we don't own or have any real say in what happens.

People with resources are fans of our little club. Hell, we only have to look as far as Bristow's Bench to know that. We're still at the level at which you don't need to export oil to be able to afford it. I would expect that any outgoing ownership group would do due diligence to ensure that the next lot have the best interests of the club at heart. Given our current ownership group I'd feel confident that they wouldn't sell to any Roberts, say. With Bateson there was always the feeling he'd sell to the first guy to show up with a wedge of 50s.

But okay, let's assume for now that there aren't many individuals with the money to buy the club. That's what we have now; the people in charge are not individually 'rich'. Together, though, they can afford to run the club. (if they happen to end up with a profit for a couple of years, that wouldn't be a big issue to me). It's for this reason that I think the future of clubs is in the hands of their fans. A well-organised fans group can ensure that the people who own the club are held accountable for their actions, and could in theory even set up a trust to eventually run the club themselves.

In your example you mention that people will 'turn' on the chairman/board if things go badly. Of course they will. But history has shown that if the ownership of a club makes big gestures like bringing in expensive players or building a new ground, those same fans will keep quiet in expectation of the good times. I know it's hard to be the one guy in a thousand who says "Er, hang on, maybe this isn't that great" but what Reynolds did at Darlo, or Mandaric et all at Pompey, ior Ridsdale at Leeds did was stupid to the point of negligence. What I've been saying is that every single one of these clubs has somehow managed to scrape together the money to keep going - usually at the expense of other local businesses. There has not, so far, been a downside to operating beyond the limits of good business practice and basic common sense, because somehow clubs are treated differently to other entities.

This will continue to be the case for as long as clubs are allowed to get away with it. Darlo are apparently safe (for now). Next year it could be Northampton, the following year it might be, I dunno, Wigan. The point is that until there is a salutory lesson, something that tells clubs "No, you cannot do this", clubs will continue to be run horribly without any regard to either the fans' blood pressure or the companies (often very small businesses) that depend on them to make their own way.

I remember reading that when Exeter went into administration, they ended up giving St. John Ambulance 6p in the pound (figures might be off but it was small percentage). You can't tell me that's right? Or fair?

The best way to fix it would be to get rid of the inane 'football creditors' rule which means that other clubs and playing staff are entitled to their full whack before anybody else gets a sniff. That's blatantly unfair. Eliminating the rule would perhaps means that potential players or clubs selling to other clubs would do their own form of due diligence to make sure they're not stiffed. If a player gets offered a crazy amount money to play in League 2 (crawley, cough), they shouldn't be too surprised when the money runs out, and they shouldn't be at the front of thne queue with their hands out while other companies - like the one that prints the programmes, say, or supplies the club bar - get stiffed good and proper.

[wodger of awabia]

To continue the analogy: what if someone else buys a car they can't afford, but when he defaults on the payments the bailiffs come to YOUR home and take your car, tv, jewellery, dog as payment. Is that fair?

Matt.

Sorry, but I don't understand your point, There is no way that bailiffs would come to me unless I had signed as a guarantor for the money,they are just as likely to visit the home of the Chief Rabbi as me.
Surely you are not suggesting that the Darlo fans are responsible for the debt.

Looks like the administrators have accepted £50K to see the club through to the end of the month. What a way to waste £50K I think that they would have been wiser to have kept the money, & put it to good use setting up the new AFC Darlington in the Evostick North ( or "spar your corner shop", whatever it is) league.

If Darlington own the ground & land then I.M.O. they would be better off selling it to developers to knock down, & build houses, business park, shops etc. They could then afford to build a modest ground that they could afford to run. Sadly though I don't think this is the case, because I remember reading somewhere that their chairman was trying to get the rent reduced.

[ferrarilover]

No Woger, I am suggesting that the Darlo fans are NOT responsible for the debt.

Your original analogy suggested that if you bought a car but couldn't pay for it, that it would be unfair for members of this forum to chip in to cover your dumb ass mistake. This is true and fair.

My follow up from that assumed that if no one on the forum bailed you out, that you would have the car taken from you by men who bear a striking resemblance to Southampton Gull. In this instance, the person who made the financial error is punished.
If we transfer the scenario to Darlington FC, we see that it is NOT the person who spent beyond his means who will suffer, it is the fans, an innocent third party.
So, in my version of the story, the person who buys the car he cannot afford represents a string of inept Chairmen. The bailiffs represent administration and the innocent person who is accosted by the bailiffs and suffers because of someone else's stupidity is representative of the fans of Darlington FC, who are the people who will really suffer for the demise of the cub, not the Chairmen who simply cut their losses and retire with their millions to Barbados.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

No Woger, I am suggesting that the Darlo fans are NOT responsible for the debt.

Your original analogy suggested that if you bought a car but couldn't pay for it, that it would be unfair for members of this forum to chip in to cover your dumb ass mistake. This is true and fair.

My follow up from that assumed that if no one on the forum bailed you out, that you would have the car taken from you by men who bear a striking resemblance to Southampton Gull. In this instance, the person who made the financial error is punished.
If we transfer the scenario to Darlington FC, we see that it is NOT the person who spent beyond his means who will suffer, it is the fans, an innocent third party.
So, in my version of the story, the person who buys the car he cannot afford represents a string of inept Chairmen. The bailiffs represent administration and the innocent person who is accosted by the bailiffs and suffers because of someone else's stupidity is representative of the fans of Darlington FC, who are the people who will really suffer for the demise of the cub, not the Chairmen who simply cut their losses and retire with their millions to Barbados.

Matt.

Don't pigeon-hole the poor bloke! Just tell him to wear a hat and slim down a bit then we can accuse him of looking like a persoanl trainer. :~D

NOTE TO DAVE: I've never seen you mate so don't know if you are rotund - it's just that most bailiffs DO look like this so if Matt is comparing you to one then you must be a little portly or just very muscly. If it's the latter then please don't get me! :slap:

[diamondgirl]

That's not the point, what you've got to think about here are the fans. Is it the fans fault that their Chairman decided to build a stadium way too large for the club? No. DFC means a lot to many people in Darlington and if all the Premiership teams united and said to their players that they had to donate £1,000 of their wages (which is a miniscule amount for them) then a football club would be saved and English Football would be seen in a positive light. How would you feel if Torquay United got themselves into administration and there was no way out of it but to wind up the club up with absolutely no help coming from teams in the BPL, who pay their players a ludicrous amount of money. I would be pretty hacked off, it would not be the fans fault and that's just how it is at Darlington. A chairman’s big ambitions turned out to be the wrong decision, deciding to build a big stadium, certainly not the fault of the fans who won't be able to watch their club play football ever again. Big clubs should help the little clubs when they are in a mess and if that did happen, there would be much more appreciation towards the money bags of the Premier League.

Graet post DannyTUFC4life. The very point that I was trying to make.

[wodger of awabia]

That's not the point, what you've got to think about here are the fans. Is it the fans fault that their Chairman decided to build a stadium way too large for the club? No. DFC means a lot to many people in Darlington and if all the Premiership teams united and said to their players that they had to donate £1,000 of their wages (which is a miniscule amount for them) then a football club would be saved and English Football would be seen in a positive light. How would you feel if Torquay United got themselves into administration and there was no way out of it but to wind up the club up with absolutely no help coming from teams in the BPL, who pay their players a ludicrous amount of money. I would be pretty hacked off, it would not be the fans fault and that's just how it is at Darlington. A chairman’s big ambitions turned out to be the wrong decision, deciding to build a big stadium, certainly not the fault of the fans who won't be able to watch their club play football ever again. Big clubs should help the little clubs when they are in a mess and if that did happen, there would be much more appreciation towards the money bags of the Premier League.[/quote]

Graet post DannyTUFC4life. The very point that I was trying to make.[/quote]

Look Iv'e already said (twice) on this thread that I feel sorry for the loyal Darlo fans, you will also see that I likened their plight to the hoi polli who are always the ones to suffer in a war.
Please explain to me why the prem players should have to pay for the various Darlo chairmens gross miss-management over the last nine years. In the real world chairmen/owners of businesses that make poor decisions have to live with the knowledge that their actions have put their loyal employees on the dole. Do you think that they go along to their masonic lodge & collect £1,000 from each of the other members to cover the shortfall?
What about Kettering? are the prem players to be asked for another £1,000 each to bail them out?
A couple of months ago Plymouth could have also have done with £1,000 handout from the players.

The only sensible conclusion to be made is that football club boards of director, & not just the chairmen hold their club in trust for future generations of supporters & prudent management is required. It's no good going out & signing expensive pro's when all you can afford are part time players.

It does not matter whether the club is Torquay or Tottenham the books must balance or the club will eventually fold. The best plan I.M.O. would be to let the poorly run clubs go under & hope that they will be replaced by well run vibrant up & coming new clubs.

[Southampton Gull]

Don't pigeon-hole the poor bloke! Just tell him to wear a hat and slim down a bit then we can accuse him of looking like a persoanl trainer. :~D

NOTE TO DAVE: I've never seen you mate so don't know if you are rotund - it's just that most bailiffs DO look like this so if Matt is comparing you to one then you must be a little portly or just very muscly. If it's the latter then please don't get me! :slap:

I wouldn't call myself "rotund" Andy

[Glostergull]

http://www.darlington-fc.net/page/NewsD ... 79,00.html

Please Mr Moderator. I don't know if this allowed but it follows on from the heartfelt report i saw thatv started the thread in the first place and hope it will galvanise minds as 3pm Saturday comes round again for us but probably one last time for a club we know so well having played them often in better times.
To all the genuine football fans and the all the Darlington fans. I say may your team live long in your hearts and heres hoping we can see Darlington FC rise from the ashes again one day to be forever in the fans control.