Is Hargreaves fit for purpose?

[Dave]

Forever, that is why these players are at this level. If they were consistent and they would be playing higher. If Briscoe was fitter he would be playing higher level, there's a reason they are here. Also having send that, most of our team haven't even played a full season of first team football. Time to judge when we get the high wage earners out at the end of the season/ start of next.

Bristol Rovers lost 1 of their last 23 games, to balance this out, part-time Dover who'd love to have our player budget unbeaten in their last 12 games. Do either have a player as fat and unfit as Briscoe, it appears not.

Which players in Sunday's starting line up haven't had a full season ? Some indeed have not, but most, really.

[Dave]

Just to add, I keep hearing about judge next season when all the high earners have gone, when will the point hit home, so will the parachute payment as well, and the youth funding I believe we have for two more seasons. What players does anyone think we're actually going to sign with the clubs further loss income coupled with the belief our club is about as financially secure as the Bearings bank ?

The wages of these high earners isn't going to equal the lost parachute payment, our club had to be promoted back to the league first time, that's gone, we're forked.

[tomogull]

Just to add, I keep hearing about judge next season when all the high earners have gone, when will the point hit home, so will the parachute payment as well, and the youth funding I believe we have for two more seasons. What players does anyone think we're actually going to sign with the clubs further loss income coupled with the belief our club is about as financially secure as the Bearings bank ?

The wages of these high earners isn't going to equal the lost parachute payment, our club had to be promoted back to the league first time, that's gone, we're forked.

I understand what you're saying Forever, but what I can't get my head around is that after Bristol Rvrs we are probably the best supported side in the league. We know that the likes of Forest Green and Eastleigh are bankrolled by wealthy owners, but what about clubs such as Grimsby, Woking or Macclesfield? Most Conference clubs can only dream about regular gates of 2000 + and it's only us and Rovers who have had the benefit of the Parachute payment this season.

What I am saying is - how can clubs with seemingly lower income be more successful than us, and why shouldn't we be just as successful as, say, Grimsby next season? Some will point out that many of the Conference sides are part-time but Grimsby and Macclesfield aren't - don't know about Woking. I understand that we are heading for a huge financial loss this season which raises the question about how do other Conference clubs balance the books?

Is Hargreaves fit for purpose? I think so is the best I can do. If we finish 8th or 9th, then he will have done okay (nothing more) as he's met the expectations of most fans. If we finish below 10th, he will not have done well. Ignoring the budget implications, he has to do better next season by motivating the players and better organisation. On the negative side, I think he was wrong to publicly criticise Ajala last Sunday for (quote) 'selfish play'. Have a go at him behind the Dressing room doors but not make a big thing of it in an interview after the match.

[lucy6lucy]

I understand what you're saying Forever, but what I can't get my head around is that after Bristol Rvrs we are probably the best supported side in the league. We know that the likes of Forest Green and Eastleigh are bankrolled by wealthy owners, but what about clubs such as Grimsby, Woking or Macclesfield? Most Conference clubs can only dream about regular gates of 2000 + and it's only us and Rovers who have had the benefit of the Parachute payment this season.

What I am saying is - how can clubs with seemingly lower income be more successful than us, and why shouldn't we be just as successful as, say, Grimsby next season? Some will point out that many of the Conference sides are part-time but Grimsby and Macclesfield aren't - don't know about Woking. I understand that we are heading for a huge financial loss this season which raises the question about how do other Conference clubs balance the books?

Is Hargreaves fit for purpose? I think so is the best I can do. If we finish 8th or 9th, then he will have done okay (nothing more) as he's met the expectations of most fans. If we finish below 10th, he will not have done well. Ignoring the budget implications, he has to do better next season by motivating the players and better organisation. On the negative side, I think he was wrong to publicly criticise Ajala last Sunday for (quote) 'selfish play'. Have a go at him behind the Dressing room doors but not make a big thing of it in an interview after the match.

3 words why the likes of Macclesfield , Woking and co can compete with there low crowds and indeed budgets. " location location location"

[Gulliball]

Selfish is the stand out word, and makes a catchy headline, but what he said was probably not any different to every other fan as they left the ground on Sunday. The commentators noted before Alfreton even scored that he would be getting the blame if we conceded a late goal, which we did, and he did. Hargreaves may regret losing his cool and giving a quote that provides such an easy headline, but at the same time Ajala did, very likely, cost us two points on Sunday, which might be crucial at the end of the season. Experiencing such a big fallout from his decision might help him learn for the next time he is in the same situation and he won't take the personal glory route if there is a better option available.

Long term with Hargreaves I think he has done as well as most fans were expecting at this stage. We started the season well but have tailed off a bit recently after a run of tougher fixtures. Of the 16 games we have remaining, only 6 are against sides in the top half (Lincoln, Eastleigh, Woking, Kidderminster, Halifax & Macclesfield). That leaves 10 games against sides in the bottom half, as well as the points we can take from those six sides, who are certainly no better than us if we play well. There is still an opportunity to reach the play-offs, which was a best case scenario. Where he has to really make his mark is taking advantage of losing the inflated wages of Tonge, Harding, Benyon, Pearce and Cameron in the summer. Those 5 players alone, who are not currently making much of a contribution on the pitch, should give him the opportunity to target the Bowman and Briscoe calibre of signings rather than having 10 players turn up for a pre-season trial.

With 18 months left on his contract it's a very big season for him personally, as well as for TUFC.

[Dave]

Just want to clear something up. Despite coming across a little harsh on Briscoe (someone needs to) I do believe he is a very good player, s said, I believe he's a player capable of winning us match's in a flash, it's just so annoying to see him incapable of playing anywhere near his potential because of his weight and fitness, a player we're getting 30 minutes out of when he should be at this stage of the season giving us the full 90. I do partly blame the manager, there are diet and fitness programmes for any player that can fix this quite quickly.

[Dave]

[I understand what you're saying Forever, but what I can't get my head around is that after Bristol Rvrs we are probably the best supported side in the league. We know that the likes of Forest Green and Eastleigh are bankrolled by wealthy owners, but what about clubs such as Grimsby, Woking or Macclesfield? Most Conference clubs can only dream about regular gates of 2000 + and it's only us and Rovers who have had the benefit of the Parachute payment this season.

What I am saying is - how can clubs with seemingly lower income be more successful than us, and why shouldn't we be just as successful as, say, Grimsby next season? Some will point out that many of the Conference sides are part-time but Grimsby and Macclesfield aren't - don't know about Woking. I understand that we are heading for a huge financial loss this season which raises the question about how do other Conference clubs balance the books?

Is Hargreaves fit for purpose? I think so is the best I can do. If we finish 8th or 9th, then he will have done okay (nothing more) as he's met the expectations of most fans. If we finish below 10th, he will not have done well. Ignoring the budget implications, he has to do better next season by motivating the players and better organisation. On the negative side, I think he was wrong to publicly criticise Ajala last Sunday for (quote) 'selfish play'. Have a go at him behind the Dressing room doors but not make a big thing of it in an interview after the match.

Tommo, we're actually the 6th best supported side in the conference.

Average gate figures as follows.

Rovers 6,008
Grimsby 3,576
Wrexham 3,477
Lincoln 2,548
Chester 2,269
TUFC 2,168 (no other club over 2,000 )

Don't think it's anything to do with location, decent loan players are not free. Money as you know does not guarantee success, there are part-time clubs working off barely a 3rd in terms of player budgets to what we are, who are doing better or equal to us, this could be down to the fact they are established non-league clubs with experienced non-league managers, Barnet have good income streams on top of their attendances allowing them to compete in the transfer market.

Don't get me wrong think Chris Hargreaves has done a decent job considering the difficulties he's faced in having players in the squad earning money the club can't afford to pay, although, CH in my opinion has made one to many fork ups, but I don't blame CH, he is in-experienced and is going to make mistakes, I blame the board CH was the wrong appointment for the club at that time, said it on the forum at the time, and it's coming home to roost now.

As for our club position, I have no inside knowledge. I take on board everyone's opinions, maybe I've missed something, but, I've seen figures quoted elsewhere that suggest the loss of the parachute payment will see our clubs income drop by £375,000 next season ( maybe I've misread those figures) But say that figure is correct and I've understood the figures correctly, the high inflated wage earners between them are unlikely to be on in terms of wages £375,000.

So if the club fails to get promoted, and being honest here with out a quick up turn in form that's going to happen , after all, every single one of our play-off rivals have games in hand on us, and several are already above us in the league table. Even taking in to account the removal of high earners of the wage bill, once you factor in the loss of the parachute payment, there will be a negative effect on the clubs finances.

So I personally do not see how money is going to be freed up for CH to go out and attract Bowman/Briscoe type signings, it will more likely be O'Archie type trialists , yes, CH might get lucky and sign some real gems, but he might not, so it's likely the club will be in the conference for a while, which will result in the loss of youth set up funding, crowds will drop, and I think we could see the club slide towards the conference south and oblivion, and you don't know how I hope I'm wrong and end up with serious egg on my face, I'd be delighted.

[brucie]

I personally wouldn't want anymore signings like Briscoe. However good a player he is doesn't matter, he just isn't fit enough to himself or the team justice.
Contrast the contribution of Bowman or Briscoe to that of Ajala over the Xmas/New Yew Year Period and look where the value for money is.

[Gulliball]

We did very well from the trialists this summer, with 4 going right into the first team picture, all for the wages of Karl Hawley. Going forward though, you can't rely on that every year - trialists should be an opportunity to have a look at an unknown player, not to fill squad places no matter what. By the summer I would hope that Hargreaves has his preferred targets in mind and starts working on them.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Forever, that is why these players are at this level. If they were consistent and they would be playing higher. If Briscoe was fitter he would be playing higher level, there's a reason they are here. Also having send that, most of our team haven't even played a full season of first team football. Time to judge when we get the high wage earners out at the end of the season/ start of next.

are you having a laugh....

no i know what it is.....Ill say it for the first time this year - dont talk wet.

if they are supposed to be professional footballers then they should be fit and not be carrying excess weight.

there are several posters on here that have played at a decent level who would have trianed two or three times a week and would be fit.....

so there is no excuse for professionals to not last 90minutes when part time teams can manage it and stay and look fit.

[Behind-the-Gulls]

Alfreton hadn't trained together since Boxing Day before playing us- due to state of pitches up there.

[wodger of awabia]

I.M.O. There is not much that C.H. can do for the rest of this season because he has not been given the resources. Any team that drops 5 points against Alfreton is not good enough & is not going to make the play offs. It will most likely take years for the team to recover from the appalling board room decision to employ Knill . I just think that Hargreaves has the commitment & desire to do well, & must be given time.

[Neal]

I personally wouldn't want anymore signings like Briscoe. However good a player he is doesn't matter, he just isn't fit enough to himself or the team justice.
Contrast the contribution of Bowman or Briscoe to that of Ajala over the Xmas/New Yew Year Period and look where the value for money is.

We cant afford to have players who cannot last 90 minutes, and that's that IMO.

[tomogull]

Of the 16 games we have remaining, only 6 are against sides in the top half (Lincoln, Eastleigh, Woking, Kidderminster, Halifax & Macclesfield). That leaves 10 games against sides in the bottom half, as well as the points we can take from those six sides, who are certainly no better than us if we play well.

I made a similar optimistic post a few weeks back, Gulliball. Since my post, we have played four clubs below us - Dover, Braintree, Welling and Alfreton - and picked up precisely 3 points (3 draws) from those four games. For some reason, when we play teams below us such as Alfreton, we drop to their standards. Sadly, after watching us being out-manouvred in the second half last Sunday, I have given up any hopes of reaching the play offs this season. Maybe we should put all our efforts into the F.A. Trophy to generate some much needed revenue. By the way, I don't think Lincoln are in the top half at present ...... but they may well be after we play them in two weeks time.

[tomogull]

[quote="forevertufc"] Tommo, we're actually the 6th best supported side in the conference.

Average gate figures as follows.

Rovers 6,008
Grimsby 3,576
Wrexham 3,477
Lincoln 2,548
Chester 2,269
TUFC 2,168 (no other club over 2,000 )

Thanks for that info, Forever. Hadn't realised that Grimsby & Wrexham's average gates were 1000+ more than TUFC and surprised that Chester's is slightly higher than ours.