Derbies

[HRG]

I'd be celebrating as much as anyone if we were to get to the Play offs and then go up but it won't be a bad thing not to. I want that Play off spot undoubtedly, the money for the club would be a bonus and the experience could benefit the players.
I want promotion for the club, but right now it's win win. We go up or stay where we are with a possibility of increased away support and income.

[Fletch]

I know the arguments for and against promotion but it has to bhe the fundamental aim opf every club to get promoted and that's what makes football so competitive. If clubs were happy where they were then it would be a pointless waste of time. Promotion for me!!

So you dont think promotion from the Conference, followed by 2 seasons consolidation and then aiming for sustainable promotion in season 3 is ambitious?

[Fletch]

def go up for me, bigger gates, clubs, more exposure, more money from league pot, plus living in yorkshire i get a whole lot of northern games to go to!!

Self self self

[Dave]

More holes than Stockports defence.
Nonsense. Bugger all to do with it. Our inability to stay in L1 was due to insufficient income generated. MB, rightly or wrongly, was not prepared to keep sinking money into the club. The cost cutting (resulting in a lesser standard of player, no reserve team, no youth set up) was what caused the downward spiral to the conference, [/b]not a "cautious ,were not ready" approach. How many time over the last 20 years have we been either on the fringes of promotion or relegation? Its hardly a new situation that we found ourselves in 4 years ago.


8 sell out matches? Dream on. The 2 Sheffields/Charlton/Exeter/Yeovil/Hudderfield or Bournemouth i agree with, however away support will be limited to around 1200 max until the stand is rebuilt. Thats not going to make much difference to the finances, particularly in mid winter when our home support invariably dips to below 2000


Every season our gates jump up for the last 4 or 5 home games. Thats because there is usually something riding on it. Feel free to look back at the figures for proof.


Dream on. Club income will not double. [b]The last two trips to the league above only resulted in meagre rises in attendance resulting in drastic cost cutting. [/b]Even D&R have a higher (slightly) attendance than us this season. Again, look back at the figures for proof.

You confuse lack of ambition with a [b]structured plan of development[/b]. You should wake up and smell the coffee instead of living in a fantasy world.
As Nick points out, we are progressing. Bottom third last season, top third this season.
With an increased capacity at the end of next season I would expect to see a serious promotion challenge that can lead on to L1 consolidation, the same as last season in L2.

Fletch attacks poor old forevers opinions,no suprise there.

Nice to see you agree with me on point one,the bit i have highlighted,cost cutting,no reserve team,no youth set up,if thats not the cautiuos approach i was on about,then what is?

Nice to see you argee with me on point two aswell,when i read the bit i have highligted there,i laughed so much i nearly fell of my chair,you say 8 sells outs dream on,and then go and point out 7 matchs that would likey sell out,cheered me up no end priceless.

One point three i highlighted a bit there,income is not driven by gates alone,last time our club was i league 1 there was no t.v deal that is in place now where the premier league pays over part of the money it receives to the lower league's,that doubles form league 2 into league 1 that is just one small area where by our club can enjoy increased income in league 1.

last bit i highlighted,i have sat on the management commitee's of three different local football club including one club that gained f.a charter standard,aswell as coached,and scouted for football development centre ,know all about development plans,and do not live in any dream world,there is no development plan that picks or choses when you do ,or do not gain promotion,thats all i am saying,you have got to push on ,and i am glad the majority of people responding to this thread think the same way.

Sorry one thing i forgot to add,failure to win promotion this season could see the club on the field take two gaint steps backward,and some of our board appear to be giving birth to kittens at the thought of promotion,if this is case say goodbye to Buckle and half the team.

[tommygull]

So you dont think promotion from the Conference, followed by 2 seasons consolidation and then aiming for sustainable promotion in season 3 is ambitious?

Of course I do but I think that getting to the play-offs with one game to go and listing the highlights of staying down isn't! Also i have a feeling that next year it may be more difficult to get promoted than this year given Crawley and a few decent tems coming down. Also i reckon Wimbledon/Luton would have a crack at automatic.

Just saying- don't take offence!

[Dave]

Can you not, Dave? I'm sure I've seen somewhere you can make a special request for something like that to be considered before the fixtures come out - Blackpool managed it in August. Admittedly that was only for one game, but surely it can't hurt to take a request into consideration before the fixture lists are compiled.There was no way they'd have put Exeter-Plymouth on Boxing Day/New Years Day because of the trouble it will have caused. Anyway, that doesn't seem to happen in the league these days, as we would have had Cheltenham both times - when infact we had Hereford and Oxford. Sure, they try and keep it localish, but they've never had two games so close to each other - that was only the BSP.

Maybe it seems like I'm lacking ambition here, I guess I'm thinking more on a personal level when talking about the distances! It'd sure help to reduce the cost for some away games though, having some closer, as you'd expect. When did we have the 'we aren't ready yet' approach before we went to the Conference. The time we went up under Leroy - I felt we were ready. We had the 20+ goal striker, we had the solid spine and some fantastic players. We should have successfully made the step up but losing DG was a big blow. We are in a much better position financially than we were then, we have a much better infrastructure, but the difference between the two squads is that the squad in 03/04 was all fairly experienced. It was more experience than it was youth, while this time around, it's alot more youth-based.

Indeed, the current crop are ambitious - you'd expect them to be, but I think that the club have already shown willingness to push on. We only just survived last season, now we're close to finishing in the top 7 - surely thats progress enough? Maybe I was being a bit over the top regarding sell outs, although the capacity will just be 4,000 odd. I'm quite sure we'd fill 75% of that should we start well. The Club are a club moving in the direction, no doubt about it - I just feel another season at this level, and trying to keep the crop of players together, as they are all learning the ways of the game at this level, will help no end. Sure, they're are a couple who could/probably will move on, but if we can keep it together then I feel we could be a force to be reckoned with.

Well i am sure our club can make such a request,however you are talking from August to Febuary,there is no way the F/L can shift that number of fixtures around just so we can have all our home local derbies after the new stand is built,there are so many consideratrions,switching fixtures around so we can have all these games at home after Feb,would effect all devon clubs,bristol,and along the m4 corridor(pardon my spelling )cant see it happening to be honest,could be wrong though.

[AlexGulls]

I think whatever happens this season has been fantastic for us. Promotion would be fantastic and it would be great to go to the likes of Hillsborough,Brammall Lane,Deepdale etc. And we'd all look forward to that.

But IF we were to stay down we can look forward to being in a Southern based league for a change. The likes of Swindon,Argyle,Rovers etc would all sell out the away end.

[Fletch]

Fletch attacks poor old forevers opinions,no suprise there.

Well, if you will post without even doing a bit of digging, dont be suprised if people point out errors in your thinking.

Nice to see you agree with me on point one,the bit i have highlighted,cost cutting,no reserve team,no youth set up,if thats not the cautiuos approach i was on about,then what is?

We were already in L1 in case you forgot, hence MB's often repeated comment "this town doesnt deserve a FL team". A cautious approach would have been not to go up in the first place, not trying to avoid a big loss once there...

Nice to see you argee with me on point two aswell,when i read the bit i have highligted there,i laughed so much i nearly fell of my chair,you say 8 sells outs dream on,and then go and point out 7 matchs that would likey sell out,cheered me up no end priceless.

How much income do you expect to generate from (probably 6?) all these vast attendances when the ground capacity is going to be cut severely

One point three i highlighted a bit there,income is not driven by gates alone,last time our club was i league 1 there was no t.v deal that is in place now where the premier league pays over part of the money it receives to the lower league's,that doubles form league 2 into league 1 that is just one small area where by our club can enjoy increased income in league 1.

Have you actually looked up the increase in TV income between L1 and L2? Not exactly much in the scheme of things is it? Have you also looked at the attendance figures the last couple of times we got promoted? Check the table the last few times we went up cos there were certainly plenty of big (or local) teams in it. Still didnt do much for overall attendances though did it? (last time Bristol C/Hull/Sheff W/Yeovil/Bournemouth etc, the time before Hull/Stoke/Birmingham/Fulham/Swansea etc)

last bit i highlighted,i have sat on the management commitee's of three different local football club including one club that gained f.a charter standard,aswell as coached,and scouted for football development centre ,know all about development plans,and do not live in any dream world,there is no development plan that picks or choses when you do ,or do not gain promotion,thats all i am saying,you have got to push on ,and i am glad the majority of people responding to this thread think the same way.

Bully for you! There also seem to be enough people that realise not going up this season wont be the end of the world, particularly untill the infrastructure is in place to actually capitalise on the minority of home matches that will attract a big away following to help subsidise the finances.

Sorry one thing i forgot to add,failure to win promotion this season could see the club on the field take two gaint steps backward,and some of our board appear to be giving birth to kittens at the thought of promotion,if this is case say goodbye to Buckle and half the team.

Whilst a managers word may be about as binding as a payment contract at Argyle (think Eddie Howe for one!!) Bucks has always said theres a plan he wants to see through here. I would like to think that means sustainable promotion. As for half the team leaving if we dont go up, how many do you think would be regular starters in a L1 team? I would guess at 3, perhaps 4?
Where do you suggest the money will come from to strengthen the squad if not from an increased capacity and attendance? Are you going to chip in half a million to pay for it?

By all means aim for promotion each season but dont take not getting promoted as a body blow. We only have to look at what happened last time, the "losing habit" carried down into L2 and eventually cost us our League place. I would sooner not see that happen again...

[Southampton Gull]

Interesting choice of words there, Fletch.

Sustainable promotion? I think you're living in cuckoo land if you think any manager thinks of it in that way prior to achieving it. We all know Buckle is ambitious, do you think he is thinking of anything else except getting us promoted? His CV looks better with two promotions in three seasons than one with a view to a second sustainable one.

I know where you're coming from, I fully understand there are a whole host of reasons why it might be better if we stay where we are, BUT, a club like ours doesn't get to choose these kind of situations and should make the most of it when one presents itself, to not do so could risk us standing still while others pick off our best players and leave us well behind.

I would be perfectly happy to see us promoted and keep as many of our current players as possible. They've all shown they can compete against teams from a higher level, add a couple of loanees, maybe Michael Poke and we could have a good go at sustaining that promotion in my view.

Anyway, a far more important question, who ripped your tights and put you in such a bad mood?

[Dave]

fletch.

You can rip as many holes in my opinions as you like personaly do not give a monkeys,as i am well aware that when post on a internet forum thats excatly what you leave yourself open to.

Trust me i am very calm about the end of the season,what will be will be,but its damn lie's and statistics,the thinking of the past,the last time we went up,blah ,blah thats the reason why nothing changes at our club to many people who think its alright to miss out on promotion after so getting close that's what is so wrong and iam just trying to encourage people to think differently,because i am pretty sure regardless of what Buckle has said there will not be a next year.

I am well aware of the cut in capacity next season and of course if the club goes up there will not be much in the way of sqaud strenghtening,the last time the club was in league 1,god you have got me at it now the club was safe with just 8 minutes left at Cholchester only that poxy late goal scored by the Dons sent us down,and yes it will be very much the same this time,if the club can stay up and there is no reason why not,things really will change thats my message as seen up the road these last two seasons.

We have a young ambitious manager and team who want to progress,are the club really showing a willingness to push on to the next level,how many members of the board (and do get me wrong i do support them)if they could stand up and be honest would be more than quite happy if the club does not get promoted,that could be a real problem going forward.

My message and opinion stands,stop thinking we are to small ,drop the we cant afford to go up,in the past in the past attitude,Hartlepool's arverage attendance at the half way point of this season was 2933,they seem to be doing a good job of staying up,why cant Torquay get promoted?,why can we not stay in league 1 ?

[Southampton Gull]

Whatever happens, promotion or no promotion I think there's a collective feelgood character at the club right now.

We've made huge strides already so I won't be too disappointed if we don't go up, but if the chance presents itself I feel you have to do your best to take it. I think that'll happen anyway, I also think the Board will do what's necessary if we do achieve it, if we don't make it I feel it's been a superb season, with many highs. It wouldn't be Torquay without a few lows to go with them.

[yellowforever]

I completely agree with the last point, not too long ago we were having a go at Claridge for saying that our 'ceiling division' was league 2. I still personally believe that we can sustain a League 1 club, we need to get the community invoved and get more younger, and regular people attending our games, and a promotion would help that.

[Dave]

Whatever happens, promotion or no promotion I think there's a collective feelgood character at the club right now.

We've made huge strides already so I won't be too disappointed if we don't go up, but if the chance presents itself I feel you have to do your best to take it. I think that'll happen anyway, I also think the Board will do what's necessary if we do achieve it, if we don't make it I feel it's been a superb season, with many highs. It wouldn't be Torquay without a few lows to go with them.

I totaly agree,and do not want this feelgood factor around the club to end like you say would not Torquay without a few lows.

As said iam feeling very calm about the end to this season if the team fails to win promotion so be it,its just this "quite happy to stay in league 2 ,because we are not ready yet attitude"thats gets my goat,were Exeter ready,they survived by the skin of there teeth year 1 with a slice of very good luck..are they ready for league 1 now (mean that as a general point)

I am again meaning this generaly,that if the club want to keep hold of the young ambitous manager/players ,then should we fail this time then 2011/12 the club must set its stall out for that season to be a sort of "project promotion season" ,not saying this will happen,however anything else and can see a number of people moving on from our club.

[Fletch]

Interesting choice of words there, Fletch.

Sustainable promotion? I think you're living in cuckoo land if you think any manager thinks of it in that way prior to achieving it. We all know Buckle is ambitious, do you think he is thinking of anything else except getting us promoted? His CV looks better with two promotions in three seasons than one with a view to a second sustainable one.

His CV wouldnt look too good, despite the promotions, should we be dragging our heels in the bottom 4 come next January though, when other clubs start to panic and think about a change of manager.

I know where you're coming from, I fully understand there are a whole host of reasons why it might be better if we stay where we are, BUT, a club like ours doesn't get to choose these kind of situations and should make the most of it when one presents itself, to not do so could risk us standing still while others pick off our best players and leave us well behind.

Hence I said

By all means aim for promotion each season but dont take not getting promoted as a body blow.

I would be perfectly happy to see us promoted and keep as many of our current players as possible. They've all shown they can compete against teams from a higher level, add a couple of loanees, maybe Michael Poke and we could have a good go at sustaining that promotion in my view.

Errr, yes and no. I would also be happy for us to go up, despite my thoughts on us dropping straight back down again. I disagree about the strength of our squad though. A couple of cup matches does not equate to playing against the same higher standard week in week out. Youve only got to look at the struggle to make the step up last season to realise that.

Anyway, a far more important question, who ripped your tights and put you in such a bad mood?

Digging bloody ragwort out of the lawn always uses up my ration of good humour

[Plymouth Gull]

I'd be celebrating as much as anyone if we were to get to the Play offs and then go up but it won't be a bad thing not to. I want that Play off spot undoubtedly, the money for the club would be a bonus and the experience could benefit the players.
I want promotion for the club, but right now it's win win. We go up or stay where we are with a possibility of increased away support and income.

What I was trying to say in a much easier way, to be honest.

Well i am sure our club can make such a request,however you are talking from August to Febuary,there is no way the F/L can shift that number of fixtures around just so we can have all our home local derbies after the new stand is built,there are so many consideratrions,switching fixtures around so we can have all these games at home after Feb,would effect all devon clubs,bristol,and along the m4 corridor(pardon my spelling )cant see it happening to be honest,could be wrong though.

Admittedly, a long time. But I don't think it affects that much? I know there are a huge amounts of complications regarding the compilation of the fixture lists, but it can't be that hard to give our away games at Bristol, Swindon, Argyle, Oxford in those months when we have reduced capacity?

It's a very valid reason in my opinion, it'd be disappointing if we couldn't fully take advantage of the said big followings by having 25% of our capacity taken away...