Lack Of Ambition and TUFC

[ferrarilover]

A lack of ambition at TUFC and a Lib Dem manifesto are, largely, identical. No, no, don't skip this post, allow me to explain.

The Liberals for the last x number of years have been the third donkey in a two horse race between Labour and the Tories. Consequently, in the run up to an election, they could promise all sorts, homes on the moon, free pet Marmosets for lonely bachelors, to elect a macadamea nut as Chancellor, it doesn't matter what they say, because they won't ever get enough votes to get into Government, so they'll never be called on their promises. The trouble comes when the lefties decide to elect (unlike the rest of us, members of the party actually got the opportunity NOT to vote for him, and didn't take it) a half blind Scottish lunatic. Suddenly, they are so unpopular that the Lib Dems are (in part, at least) in control and suddenly, their mad pledge of free lap dancers for students comes back to look rather foolish.
It is exactly the same story at Torquay United. It doesn't matter what the board says about our ambitions of advancement through the divisions, or anything else for that matter. They could promise a 90,000 all seater stadium made of the Popes' belly button fluff if we get to L1, because there is absolutely no way, with our finances and geography etc, that we will ever have a squad capable of promotion to the third tier. We are, after all, 'only' Torquay United...

Matt.

[Regiment]

i think if anyone who gets involved in football, at ANY level, in ANY role, on the pitch or off it, who lacks ambition, might as well not bother in the first place. football is not the place for you.

being realistic, doesn't mean you can't be ambitious. i know TUFC will not win the premiership in the next 10yrs, but can we beat shrewsbury on friday, then stevenage/accrington in the final ?? of course we can. at the start of the season, promotion might have seemed un-realistic, but i'm sure everyone involved with TUFC (club staff and fans) felt it was possible, or in the very least, HOPED we could aspire to it.

and now that we are there, the question of whether the club wants to achieve it's ambitions or not ???? aargghh !!!

at the burton match, someone said to me "maybe they've been told not to go up", but i just cannot get my head around this notion. can you really imagine players with the drive and passion like Branno, Manse etc, would really accept that and not try ??? nah, i just can't accept that.

the most i could accept is pre-season, the club decides survival is the objective, and maybe even sets out a 3yr plan to get promoted eventually, but to get so close, to bring in quality players on loan who have also displayed a winning mentality, a willingness to succeed, there's no way anyone has been told not to win.

maybe people are reading too much into statements from Bucks, and how ambitious he is. i personally think i've heard him say it far too often, but it doesn't make me think he's trying to say "i'm ambitious, but the club/board isn't". or maybe people are looking for an excuse, someone to blame, IF we don't succeed in making it to leage1 this time around.

blackpool have to go to man utd and win on the last game of the season to give themselves a chance of staying in the prem. does anyone at blackpool really believe they are better than man utd ?? no, of course not. do they believe they can go there and win ?? yes, they have to believe, which takes me back to my first point. if you don't have that belief and ambition - pick a different sport.

so, lets all show the sort of belief and passion we want, and expect, to see from our players on friday (and beyond), and get behind them every step of the way.

COYY

[Glostergull]

Please gentlemen. The thought of a new stand made of the Popes belly button Fluff is upsetting my fragile disposition. Ye Gods and Little fishes. apples and strudles. Who wants to sit on belly button fluff
Lets all think of gentler things like getting back to real football in the cold and fog watching us lose to Chester or the likes. I kinda got used to it. :slap: Now please bend over as Westbay is going to slap your bottom for being naughty. oh on second thoughts you would probably enjoy that. ;P

[Southampton Gull]

The only thing I'll add to this thread is this:

I don't call it a lack of ambition for a Board to realise that a promotion to League One while trying to finance the Grandstand and manage the debt already owed to the Bristow family is going to put the future of the Club at risk. For that reason and that reason only I can sympathise with the views of certain members of the Board who are dreading promotion at this stage. If anyone doesn't believe that this is the case then that's fine by me, but I'm positive that the majority of those on the Board have this prominent in their minds.

All that said, I'm 100% certain that the players would never do anything other than try their hardest to gain promotion, whatever their intentions for the future.

[basil75]

On a slight side track but related to how the lack of ambition rumours affected our attendances in the past - I do feel we (the fans) are often our own worst enemy.

I do think we overreact less compared to other fans and don't get too carried away - which is a credit to us I think. However, we can be overly pessimistic - even when the times are good (I can also be equally guilty of this) - and this can be incredibly damaging. For instance, right at the beginning of the season we where top of the table with 100% record after 4 games, people where obviously happy, but it was quickly followed by the opinion that we'll quickly fall away - we could never sustain a promotion push - we're too inconsistent.

I'd imagine a lot of potential new fans coming through know of people who are already going to games. If a person sees this good run (thinking that they may go along to the next match) but then hears that this is just a flash in the pan, the appeal for the new fan to attend probably dimishes quite a lot, as in their mind, the chances of the team they're going to see play lose has considerably increased in his mind.

We moan and winge about how people don't even come when we're doing well in the league, but if we go round telling every one we're going to lose the next game no matter (vs a good team - they'll be too strong for us, vs a bad team - banana skin, we never win those types of games)

We are historically a league 2 club - not a non-league club. We are in a historically tight division, where anyone can beat anyone regardless of budget. I'm not denying that we've done incredibly well this season, but how are we punching above our weight? This makes it sound like we think we should be a non league club! Who wants to start supporting a club that is eventually destined for non league, regardless of current, short term success?

It's not going to do our attendances any good if we all go around saying how we're almost certain we'll be relegated. What potential new fan is going to want to come and watch us get hammered all season?

Sometimes the delusional fans of these "sleeping giants" can be good for a club, as new fans are attracted by optimism, belief, as well as perceived ambition. We can't really have a go at other clubs saying "little old Torquay", when we say and portray ourselves as such. Many of us are equally guilty of playing up to it.

Ultimately, underlying pessimism and the attitude that it's bound to go wrong, so enjoy it while it lasts, probably has a far worse effect on the club than we realise. Long term - this probably is a self fulfilling prophecy, but is something we can control.

[bixieupnorth]

its vital that they dont hand out vastly inflated new contracts if we go up, who else in the country is getting a pay rise? why should footballers expect 25% pay hikes, theres no job security anywhere and the players need to appreciate that fact, its a better league to play in to get spotted and move on, byt they canbt expect tufc to pay salaries much bigger than at present until the debt is cleared and the ground improved

[Bomber]

Should we go on to win promotion, Buckle should be looking to make best use of the youth loan system to bring in Premiership or Championship youngsters in on loan to compliment the squad that we have, in addition to the permanent additions of the likes of Sranley, Robinson, Oastler etc.
A number of clubs at League One have used this system to good effect, most notably Yeovil Town, in the last few seasons.

[Mo Gull]

I don't think it's a case of the Board going mental and hiking everyones contract up by 25% by choice. Alot of these players, the bigger names would have the increase written in so the board have no choice. That ebing saig, how many actually do is up for debate, as who would have thought we were goig to have the chance of going up? I think the owrry is probably more to do with getting new players in. You cane xpect the demands to be significantly higher for a player 1 division up. Without a massive increase in attendance, which wont happen I cans ee the concern. Howeve, the idea there would be a plan to stay down is laughable. We're not the Mafia!

More likely, we simply ouldnt see any big or popular name signings. I know Bateson didnt do alot to keep us up last time, but Constantine was prob on a fair whack, as was Akinfenwa. I think we'd be looking at league 2 players rather than league 1 ones.

If bucks, or whoever might be in charge knows the lower divisions, then i dont see this as a problem as there are many players who can step up a division. Hell, we're looking at non league strikers too!

I think we should be excited, not worried. This board won't let the club get into trouble. They've saved us once already!

[ferrarilover]

Should we go on to win promotion, Buckle should be looking to make best use of the youth loan system to bring in Premiership or Championship youngsters in on loan to compliment the squad that we have, in addition to the permanent additions of the likes of Sranley, Robinson, Oastler etc.
A number of clubs at League One have used this system to good effect, most notably Yeovil Town, in the last few seasons.

[highweekgull]

My main concern is for three years time when we get promoted to the premiership..where will we play our home games without an all-seater stadium?

[Fonda]

As far as i'm aware nobody has ever suggested we're going to purposefully try and avoid promotion? The very notion is ridiculous in the extreme. The concern of prominent people at the club might be, as highlighted by Dave, we can't afford to go up at the current time. But i'm not really sure i even understand that argument? Would we be forced to spend more money in League 1? Does promotion rely on a promise to spend? We might have the odd player with a promotion related pay-rise - but i doubt many negotiated that. So we go with the sqaud we've got, add a couple more form the League below, or a loanee or two, and see what happens. The very worst that could happen is we get relegated again. Where are these extra costs we're so frightened of? We don't have to spend more on transfers/wages to try and stay up. If we can't - we don't, and we'll only come back down again. It's not a huge drama. Unless i'm missing something obvious?

[tommygull]

There are no massive increases in cost that I can see. Maybe slightly higher administration and security costs. Obviously if the club are losing alot and at the bottom of league 1 then attendances will be significantly lower than if we are winning alot and at the top of league 2. That could lead to a loss of income?

[Fonda]

There are no massive increases in cost that I can see. Maybe slightly higher administration and security costs. Obviously if the club are losing alot and at the bottom of league 1 then attendances will be significantly lower than if we are winning alot and at the top of league 2. That could lead to a loss of income?

I had considered that. But we have a core of 2,000 that come regardless of form, and we've not averaged much more than that season! Indeed, if we got promoted, season ticket sales would be higher, and our attendances at the start of the season would surely be higher than average. So even if they dropped off a bit due to results, the season-average would at least remain on a par with this season.

[Fletch]

Fonda, agree with most of that. Apart from the wage side of things that is. Even players at this level all seem to have agents, and you can take for granted that any agent that didnt get a promotion clause in a contract wouldnt have clients for long. Strange they dont like talking about relegation clauses though

The big problem i forsee is the reduced capacity, resulting in us not being able to capitalise on the 6, maybe 7, games that would bring sellout crowds. The figures for increased share of the FL pot vary widely depending on which source you look at but as a rough estimate, would probably cover twice as much of the wage budget as the current deal does (still below half though). The matchday income from ticket sales is what keeps us ticking over and paying the bills. If that isnt covered by fans paying on the gate, then (hopefully not though) we could find ourselves on the slippery slope...

[numpte]

Should we be fortunate enough to get up, i'd like to see the squad that got us there given the opportunity to survive. I agree, not sure what the additonal costs would be, but in any case, wouldnt they be off set by the increased attendances. There are either some big clubs in L1 ( like Sheff Utd, Weds, Charlton) or local ones (Exeter, Yeovil, Bournemouth) where you could confidently predict an away sell out or nigh on sell out. With a fair winter meaning less double home games i'd argue the average att might be upwards of 3.5k.

Must say though, watched Huddersfield v Bournemouth last night and thought, that is a step up in quality!!! Yikes!!