Little club syndrome...

[Robiberto22]

Probably not.

Fine line between ambition and recklessness. We don't ever want to get in a situation like Argyle's. A club like ours needs to be sensible, but yes I feel we could definitely improve things in our manner and the message we put out. Saleable assets we need to try to sign long term contracts, 4 years. Kee, O Kane, should have been Benyon, Ellis. These guys that even if no one buys them, they are going to play for us anyway. But if people want to buy them then we get a fee like Hereford got for Manset, nearly £400,000. It's no use having players like that on 1 year deals because it makes £100,000 impossible to turn down. £400,000 each for those players means we could rebuild the club almost, £400,000 in total keeps us going for another year.

some of the things i heard about last season in terms of players we missed out on because of individuals actions, not registering players, the lack of information that gets out, there is no promotion of the club at all in the local area, stuff like that has to stop. Like others have said it's amateurish, it doesn't make us look good and the gates tell their own story.

what he said

[royalgull]

I find it hard to knock the board because they've given us the club back, it was a fookin shambles when they walked in the door. Be it Paul Bristow (RIP) who put the money in but clubs shouldn't be reliant on an individual bankrolling it. The ones that are are the ones that find themselves screwed when said person leaves, passes on or whatever. The club has to self sustain as best as it can. With us, we get 2500 on average through the gate so our playing budget is going to be half of BRistol Rovers for example. That's not placing your limitations or lacking ambition it's fact if you haven't got somebody willing to cash cheques that said person knows he'll never see again.

Football is a ridiculously unfair business where the business models and plans of clubs would make financial advisors and owners of companies cry. Like i mentioned there's a real fine line between showing ambition and pure recklessness. Seen it with so many clubs recently that have gone to the wall and it really needs one or two of the name clubs to actually go out of business before football wakes up and starts playing by the rules of the land again. You pay for what you can afford.

[Robiberto22]

maybe people will start to calm down once a new gaffer is in place and the season starts, people seem to be in panic or summat we've always been ok where we are and unless someone comes in with a whole load of money we'l continue being ok as we are and thats fine by me

[Regiment]

lots of people making very good points. apologies in advance if i ruin that now

talking about whether or not we're a small club is easy. its all relative. compared to Man Utd, we ARE a small club. the problem is, it shouldn't be used as an excuse for failure. how do you think anyone associated with Man Utd felt about the Champions League final defeat ?? Probably exactly the same as we felt on the same day, losing to stevenage. it's all relative.

what we need to do as a club, and that means EVERY member of staff, EVERY fan, is start believing we can achieve more. are people content to sit back now and say, "yeah we did well last year, but we won't do it again". What ?? Why ?? If there is no ambition to match or exceed last year's achievements, we can hardly complain when it doesn't happen. i'd like to see our club come out and say they want to be up there pushing for promotion again, believe the players will be doing all they can to achieve, and IF it doesn't happen, at least we know we tried, we showed ambition, and we're gonna try even harder next year. You can bet Man Utd are already aiming to win the champions league next season.

no one wants to see the club kill itself trying to achieve this, of course we have to do it within sensible limitations, but once we've assembled a squad under the new manager, the doors are then shut, get on with what you've got, and just aim to be the best you can. i'd never criticise my team for aiming high and falling short, provided they've given their all.

[mlw]

Excellent post Fonda well stated.
We all know that we are always going to be small club so our aim should be "to be the best small club". Lets aim to do everything the best we can. We have a lot to thank the board for but when it comes to organisation, communication and promoting the club they are letting themselves and the supporters down and wasting the opportunity to enhance the club's profile & reputation.
There is a total lack of administrative expertise which has showed itself in the recent ticket fiascos - this just needs some basic organisation & training. We need an effective Club Secretary / Office Manager who can look objectively at the way things are currently being done and put forward a programme for improvement. The question of e-mailing season ticket holders which has been mentioned by several others is a obvious example. Torquay are not the only club who don't use their website to its full potential. It is a potent tool of communication and the club don't use it properly. Do we have anyone in the club with any real computing knowlewdge - if we don't then I'm sure there are supporters out there who be willing to give help and advice. Torquay United seems to do very little to promote itself in the town, to encourage the occasional or lapsed supporters to come back on board. There has never seemed to be any thought given as to how the profile of the club could be improved and what it needs to do to get more people through the gate. The board has business experience - Bill Phillips has managed at Chief Executive level so should know the score. What seems to be lacking most is knowledge of the modern digital age - it seems to passed Torquay by. With some inivative self promotion the club could gradually get more people through the turnstiles. There are many leisure events and other things touting for our disposable income and the winners are those that best promote themselves.
If we lack skills and expertise in certain areas these can be overcome without major cost - but the wheels need to be set in motion before they fall off.
There is no reason why we can't be a well organised, well run club which is proactive towards its supporters and be the envy of others. All it needs is the realisation that we don't do certain things well and more importantly the desire and willingness to improve.

[cambgull]

Couldn't agree more mlw, good post.

There are so many things the club could really use some help with. I wish I lived closer as I'd be delighted to help out in my spare time. It's getting the club to admit they have a problem (now it sounds like they're drug addicts!).

[royalgull]

lots of people making very good points. apologies in advance if i ruin that now

talking about whether or not we're a small club is easy. its all relative. compared to Man Utd, we ARE a small club. the problem is, it shouldn't be used as an excuse for failure. how do you think anyone associated with Man Utd felt about the Champions League final defeat ?? Probably exactly the same as we felt on the same day, losing to stevenage. it's all relative.

what we need to do as a club, and that means EVERY member of staff, EVERY fan, is start believing we can achieve more. are people content to sit back now and say, "yeah we did well last year, but we won't do it again". What ?? Why ?? If there is no ambition to match or exceed last year's achievements, we can hardly complain when it doesn't happen. i'd like to see our club come out and say they want to be up there pushing for promotion again, believe the players will be doing all they can to achieve, and IF it doesn't happen, at least we know we tried, we showed ambition, and we're gonna try even harder next year. You can bet Man Utd are already aiming to win the champions league next season.

no one wants to see the club kill itself trying to achieve this, of course we have to do it within sensible limitations, but once we've assembled a squad under the new manager, the doors are then shut, get on with what you've got, and just aim to be the best you can. i'd never criticise my team for aiming high and falling short, provided they've given their all.

Valid point on the 'why can't we do as well next year' I truly believe 'in house' the club we feel that way. I don't believe any club or players of any club go into a season thinking we're going to be rubbish this year. Every single club in this league will feel they've got a chance, that's the beauty of football outside the Premiership in this country, it's unpredictable and anyone can beat anyone. Who'd have said Morecambe and Dagenham in the playoffs last year and Torquay and Accrington this? Not many. I wouldn't want the club or players to think any different than we could have a good season again this year.

I think we've got some good players, with the right appointment, no more player losses and 5 or 6 good additions why can't we be top 7 again? The other flip side of it is we could just as easily struggle next year. Wrong appointment, wrong signings and the lads that are here not performing as they can, on top of us having one of the smallest budgets meaning we can't sign players as good as are at some clubs, I think there can be a levelling out. Every now and then a surprise package hits the top 7, who knows who it will be next year? but more often than not it's the teams with the finance and bigger squads that occupy the top places and the rest of us have to make sure we get 50 points first and foremost. Harsh realities of football, like i mentioned before it's an unfair business and not a level playing field. Highlighted at the top level more so than ours but still a case for it at ours. Chesterfield, Wycombe, Shrewsbury even Stevenage were fairly big spenders last year. 4 of the top 5.

Who knows though, despite cuts, despite player losses, manager lost. If we get the next couple of weeks right off the field, maybe it won't be a one off. Lets hope not.

[SuperNickyWroe]

for gods sake we dont have a syndrome

we are a small club! end of!

[Burnhamgull]

We are a small club but so were Newton Heath!

Agree with a lot that's been written already, especially Hectors comment about it stemming from the Bateson era. MB always enjoyed talking the club down and saying how we didn't deserve a club in Torquay. Unfortunately, despite rescuing the club from almost certain demise 4 years ago, the board need to step up the professionalism and more importantly, they have to engage the local community and look for ways of marketing the club to make it more appealing to the wider community.

There are some very good comments on this thread and hopefully the board are watching!

[Fonda]

for gods sake we dont have a syndrome

we are a small club! end of!

End of? It's not about those at the club, suddenly deluding themselves into thinking we're anything other than a small club. We are what we are - a club with only 2,500 loyal fans can't consider itself anything else. My point was picked up by somebody earlier - it's about being the best that TUFC can be. If the amount through the turnstiles dictates our wage structure is of a size that means the best we can achieve next season is 20th, so be it. But we must strive to optimise what we have. The impression given by the club is that 'we'll settle for not being relegated'. It doesn't inspire anyone - fans or potential signings. We need a more positive outlook. Lets start looking at the sky rather than the ground. If we give success our best shot, nobody will have complaints if we fall short. If we enter every season with such meagre ambitions, we'll never achieve anything else.

[Trojan 67]

Little club syndrome.

Mmmm.

Then there's little dick syndrome.

Big dick, little dick, both are useless when limp, flaccid and not up for it.

Quote from Hugh Jardon : "Our little 2500 gates, when up for it, seem like 4 x 2500 when full blooded and raging."

[SuperNickyWroe]

End of? It's not about those at the club, suddenly deluding themselves into thinking we're anything other than a small club. We are what we are - a club with only 2,500 loyal fans can't consider itself anything else. My point was picked up by somebody earlier - it's about being the best that TUFC can be. If the amount through the turnstiles dictates our wage structure is of a size that means the best we can achieve next season is 20th, so be it. But we must strive to optimise what we have. The impression given by the club is that 'we'll settle for not being relegated'. It doesn't inspire anyone - fans or potential signings. We need a more positive outlook. Lets start looking at the sky rather than the ground. If we give success our best shot, nobody will have complaints if we fall short. If we enter every season with such meagre ambitions, we'll never achieve anything else.

i think the club is doing or trying to do its best shane - it might not be right or pefect but they are - and im sick of people moaning about it.

[Fonda]

I'm sorry to hear that Chris. I think you've misunderstood me though. I conceded their intentions were good and they were 'doing their best' in the opening post. My concern is that they lack the sufficient knowledge of certain issues for their 'best' to be effective enough. They are 'doing their best' to keep us in the League, where i think we should all be 'doing our best' to achieve more. If we fall short, so be it. But let's at least buy a ticket (and i don't mean by spending beyond our means). If my post was a moan, it was aimed at those moaning and making excuses for under-achievement.

[SuperNickyWroe]

I'm sorry to hear that Chris. I think you've misunderstood me though. I conceded their intentions were good and they were 'doing their best' in the opening post. My concern is that they lack the sufficient knowledge of certain issues for their 'best' to be effective enough. They are 'doing their best' to keep us in the League, where i think we should all be 'doing our best' to achieve more. If we fall short, so be it. But let's at least buy a ticket (and i don't mean by spending beyond our means). If my post was a moan, it was aimed at those moaning and making excuses for under-achievement.

yes mate i did.
sorry.
totally agree with the above quote.
just fed up of the moaners shane thats all.

[brucie]

And who was the biggest culprit for this mentality? - Buckle himself of course. How many times in every interview did he peddle the "no right to be where we are" line. Basically just to boost his own standing no doubt.
It doesn't help that we do not have a chairman of any "standing".
Tim "nice but dim" Baker makes good press coverage chanting away amongst the hoardes at the Shrewsbury match but is that the role we really want for someone in that position?
Its hard to picture Tony Boyce standing there chanting in his Sherpa Van Trophy Top.
As has been said members of the board maybe "too nice" but the way Buckle was "feted" over his move to Bristol Rovers was bordering on farcical.
if Buckle had agreed the deal with Bristol Rovers before the season ended (and it seems blindingly obvious that this was the case) I would have been quite happy if Buckle had been **** off there and then.
Sod the play offs, at least we would have come out of the whole fiasco with some self respect and would be poncing around half way through June interviewing the likes of Hargreaves,Holdsworth and Russell when common sense would dictate that that John Hughes looks man to take over.