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ferrarilover wrote:With or without Eunan, we have a stronger squad than we did last year and we made the playoffs. Why all this negativity?

Matt.

Agreed, one man does not a team make. If Morris steps in to that role with the additions we have I think play-offs is still a very realistic aim.

ferrarilover wrote:With or without Eunan, we have a stronger squad than we did last year and we made the playoffs. Why all this negativity?

Matt.

Disagree. I think we look moderately stronger going forward to the team that ended last year because Bodin is better than what we had although again unlike some I don't think he's a real stand out performer. Other than that we look weaker in the 2 key areas in which won us 90% of our games last year. In goal (always going to be the case) and in central defense. Without Eunan our midfield looks completely ineffective from an attacking sense. We should however have enough to be midtable without him.

royalgull wrote: Disagree. I think we look moderately stronger going forward to the team that ended last year because Bodin is better than what we had although again unlike some I don't think he's a real stand out performer. Other than that we look weaker in the 2 key areas in which won us 90% of our games last year. In goal (always going to be the case) and in central defense. Without Eunan our midfield looks completely ineffective from an attacking sense. We should however have enough to be without him.

Ling has always stated if Eunan goes he would look for a replacement so I expect us to add if he does leave.

ferrarilover wrote:With or without Eunan, we have a stronger squad than we did last year and we made the playoffs. Why all this negativity?

Matt.

I agree as well. Last season playing 4-4-2 with Eunan and Manse in the middle we were frequently exposed. The 4-5-1 formation was really built to accomodate Eunan, while keeping us solid and also made up for our lack of striking options beyond Howe. I was actually a little disappointed with Eunan's goal return having been giving such a free role although he did have a great season (as did the rest of the team).

This year we have 3 good options upfront who I think can play in any combination and we also have some good midfield options with Easton and Lathrope now with a full season behind him. I would actually like to see us with 4-4-2 as our standard formation, with 4-5-1 as an additional option with Morris in the free role if needed. If we do go 4-4-2 I think a choice always has to be made between Eunan and Manse as I don't think they can play together.

Of course I wouldn't be disappointed if Eunan does stay though!

royalgull wrote: In goal (always going to be the case) and in central defense.

bloody yanks.

Pokey is more than capable at L2 level, we know this. We were never going to keep Bobby, so from a realistic point of view, we are no worse off than we were last year, but, perhaps, from a strict ability point of view, we are one point worse off (-1)

We have lost Ellis, but have replaced him with Aaron Downes who has plied his whole recent career for a very good L2/ordinary L1 side (aside from his spell with Rovers, of course). Ok, he's been injured, but a Ferrari with a reconditioned starter motor is still a fast car, provided the starter motor keeps working. Equally, a quality footballer with a dodgy knee is still a quality footballer provided his knee holds up. Given that we wouldn't have signed him unless he was fit and fixed (in Ling we trust), we are certainly no worse off. Judging from last night, he looks quality. Make no mistake, Tiverton were no mugs and represented a genuine task for an under-prepared, unfit TUFC 22. I'll call that a push (-1).

On the left side of midfield, we now have the option to swap Morris for Craig. NC is a class above Morris and will add composure on the ball and some genuine quality. He is as capable as Eunan at picking that pass. Calling this a point for the new team (0).

IF Eunan goes, we now have Easton, who I like very much. Equally as composed on the ball as Eunan, does all the simple things well, tracks back far more than Eunan does and offers more cover for the back 5. But, since we are looking at the very worst case scenario, we'll call this a -1 too (-1).

We also now have the option of Bodin over Stevens (might not be how it works out, but I'm just swapping players, sort of, at random). This is CLEARLY a winner. As good as Danny was for the first half of last season, he ain't no Bodin. Must be a +1 to the new team (0).

Up top, we have a properly lean, mean and fit Rene Howe who will almost certainly not get banned or injured for anywhere near as much of this season as he was last. He will get more goals and more assists, making him a +1 for this years team, making the final score +1. We are better now as a starting 4-1-4-1 (or 4-5-1 if you accept Lathrope as a midfielder) than we were last year, and that's even accepting that Easton will offer less than Eunan and that Pokey isn't as good as Bobby and that Downes doesn't turn out to be better than Ellis.

As for our bench, well, when you have Stevens to bring on, along with Jarvis, Niall Thompson and Tom Cruise as opposed to Macklin, McPhee, Halpin and Atieno, then we can’t possibly be any worse off there either.

Matt.

I hate to do this. But Matt's post was excellent. I find myself agreeing with everything there.

Going to go have a lie down.

Yep - would have to agree with Matt. As a squad we are stronger (even if we lose and do not replace Eunan).

Does anybody know where Craig played last night? Was it central or on the left?

Matt is a big fan but wondering how others rate him? I have yet to see him play and have no knowledge of what he offers.

great post Matt. Agree with it all.

Craig had a decent game last night. Think he played more of a central role Rich. Its sometimes a bit hard to tell in these pre-season games, especially when the whole team are replaced at half time.

I was very impressed with Aaron Downes. IF he stays fit will be a more than capable replacement for Ellis.

Just highlighted all the issues and claiming 'points' for players that were already here last year. Rene might be fitter, but could get injured just the same this year we don't know. His fitness makes no relevance to his red card(s) last year or possibly this year. Massive fan of Rene, if we actually gave him any decent service he'd be a 20+ a seasoner, problem is we don't and without Eunan are even less likely too. If we are going to consider this 'current players - new season method' then I'd wager fairly confidently that Mansell won't get anywhere near the amount of goals he got last season. His career history says that was a fluke.

Olejnik > Poke (who has his own injury problems), nothing against Michael he is a very solid keeper at this level and was probably the best we could have realistically got and hoped for but he's not Championship standard like Bobby who won us numerous games last year.
Robertson > Ellis > Downes, not a massive fan of Ellis but I'd still rather have him available knowing he's going to be fit and ready to play than someone I am convinced we've panic signed who is also on the back of 2 serious knee injuries. With a young kid as backup whose not played for 18months.

Compared O'Kane to Easton which I don't think is fair, I think Easton has been signed as a squad player much like McPhee was. On the face of it I'd rather have Easton but McPhee started about 3 games out of 46 last year so chances are Easton won't be used much either. Craig was here last year and not used.

I think it's likely Morris will be used centrally this year which I am comfortable with but I thought he looked better in the more defensive side of that when he was used there. Not the playmaking, possible matchwinner Eunan is.

Bodin improves what we had but I don't see him as a real difference maker, by that I mean he's not going to win us the league with 25 goals or 20 assists, he'll probably be a slightly better version of Danny. We carried on once he left and then was sparingly used by both Swindon and Crewe. Stevens got 10 goals last year which was a good effort but I'm happy he's in the squad. Jarvis was here and the jury was out. not convinced he'll score many goals and I prefer him out wide than through the middle.

We could play 4-4-2 easier now Bodin is here I'd agree with that, I'd be happy with him through the middle with Rene, with Danny and Jarvis out wide. But other than that I just see us weaker defensively, question marks over fitness over 3 of our new signings and possibly our only ball playing attacking creative midfielder we've got on his way out as well.

i don't see how that makes us stronger than last year personally.

I know it's not quite what you wanted Rich, but as a brief overview, Nathan is just like Eunan. His composure on the ball is astounding for one so young and so small (for a footballer). Just a couple of examples from the last two games, both times he's had passes back to him out on the left touchline (in front of the Pop side) and opponents have come steaming in at him to punish the sloppy pass. He doesn't panic, he doesn't dive in, he just calmly flicks the ball away (think last night's may have been a Cruyff turn) and makes a pass. He always looks like he has more time than anyone else, as if time passes slower for him than it does for everyone else. Add to this his finishing (the bottom corner 30 yarder for the reserves last year was absolutely brilliant) and his ability to play pretty much anywhere on the left side (he could replace, to varying degrees of competence, Nico, Downes, Stevens, Manse, Eunan or Jarvis as second striker) and we have a real prospect on our hands here.

Over to others to back me up?

Matt.

I would say we about par with where we were last season in terms of squad cover.

Don't forget this time last season we had Chris Robertson and Billy Kee on our books, in fact Bodin was originally signed on loan to us to replace Billy (Kee). To say we now have the option of Bodin instead of Stevens I do not feel is accurate.

If Downes has replaced Ellis, Cruise replaces LRT, this means Robertson has not been replaced? or has been replaced by the YTS lad (who I haven't seen play so cannot comment on his ability)

The plus side is Craig, who wasn't here at the start of last season, Ive seen play 4 or 5 times now, and in most of those games he has been the best player on the pitch. I cant wait to see him step up to the first team, I think he's ready and certainly offers more than Morris.

I was hoping for another attacking option to be brought in before the season starts, and would think if O'Kane does move on 2 more faces are required to make us stronger than we were last year.

Agree. Nathan Craig is very calm, on the ball, which has to be good. Does not appear to be rushed into things and seems to have the ability to know where the ball is (At his feet) and be able to keep control of it whilst looking around the pitch, in order to pick a telling pass. Not comparing him in any real way but for those of us old enough to have watched the fantastic Bobby Moore, who seemed to have enough time, whilst on the ball, to comb his hair, cut his toe nails and pour himself a G&T before aiming a perfect pass to a team mate, well Nathan seems to have the same sort of calmness, about him. Hope it continues throughout the season, when/if he is picked to play.

royalgull wrote:Just highlighted all the issues and claiming 'points' for players that were already here last year. Rene might be fitter, but could get injured just the same this year

You're quite right, he could, but since his excess weight was blamed and he has now lost that, I feel it unlikely. By the same token, there could be a bus crash which kills half the squad, should we perhaps withdraw from the League, you know, just in case?

royalgull wrote: His fitness makes no relevance to his red card(s) last year or possibly this year.

I never suggested that it did, but you can bet he'll be in for an unmanagable financial penalty if there is any repeat of least season's stupidity.

royalgull wrote: if we actually gave him any decent service he'd be a 20+ a seasoner, problem is we don't and without Eunan are even less likely too.

This seems a self defeating argument. You say that without Eunan, Rene won't get the service he needs, but you've already said that Rene doesn't get the service anyway. If Eunan isn't capable, let's try someone else to see if they are and pocket one hundred and seventy five large at the same time.
Incidentally, I can't find the numbers recorded anywhere and I certainly haven't the will to read through every single match report from last year, but I don't reckon there was a Eunan to Rene assist recorded more than twice, so I'd suggest the effect of Eunan's departure on Rene's tally will be negligible and certainly a lesser factor in the negative than his weight loss and commensurate fitness increase will be in the positive.

royalgull wrote:If we are going to consider this 'current players - new season method' then I'd wager fairly confidently that Mansell won't get anywhere near the amount of goals he got last season. His career history says that was a fluke.

I am at least as confident as you are that this is the case, but there's really not a lot we can do about that, aside from hope that Eunan's replacement is more of a threat going forward, or that Manse has another fluke, or that we get more refereeing decision or some other fluke makes up for it. Incidentally, we have made the playoffs four out of five seasons and only one of those featured a high scoring Lee Mansell, so we must be capable without his goals.

royalgull wrote: Olejnik > Poke (who has his own injury problems), nothing against Michael he is a very solid keeper at this level and was probably the best we could have realistically got and hoped for but he's not Championship standard like Bobby who won us numerous games last year.

Where have I seen this concession before? Oh yeah, in my post...

royalgull wrote: Robertson > Ellis > Downes, not a massive fan of Ellis but I'd still rather have him available knowing he's going to be fit and ready to play than someone I am convinced we've panic signed who is also on the back of 2 serious knee injuries. With a young kid as backup whose not played for 18months.

You cannot possibly hope to suggest this and get away with it. Seen much of Downes, have you? Panic signed, which Dinger is famous for since he arrived here. The key is that he is on the back of two serious knee injuries, not in the middle of them. God made him imperfectly, medical science has corrected the Almighty's error and he is now well on his way. The young kid who was trusted by Arsene Wenger (who, I'm told, knows a thing or two about football) to feature in a Champions League match before he got injured. He's here because of a condition which has, again, by the wonders of science, been cured.

royalgull wrote: Compared O'Kane to Easton which I don't think is fair, I think Easton has been signed as a squad player much like McPhee was. On the face of it I'd rather have Easton but McPhee started about 3 games out of 46 last year so chances are Easton won't be used much either.

Easton is far, far too good to start but three games a year. I like McPhee (as a man), but he's just not much cop as a player, Easton is more than capable of being a first team regular and I think Dinger will like him.

royalgull wrote: Craig was here last year and not used.

Remind me how many games your beloved O'Kane started in his first partial season with us?

royalgull wrote: I think it's likely Morris will be used centrally this year which I am comfortable with but I thought he looked better in the more defensive side of that when he was used there. Not the playmaking, possible matchwinner Eunan is.

Which is precisely why I have replaced him with Bodin/Craig, both of whom certainly are matchwinners.

royalgull wrote: Bodin improves what we had but I don't see him as a real difference maker, by that I mean he's not going to win us the league with 25 goals or 20 assists, he'll probably be a slightly better version of Danny. We carried on once he left and then was sparingly used by both Swindon and Crewe. Stevens got 10 goals last year which was a good effort but I'm happy he's in the squad. Jarvis was here and the jury was out. not convinced he'll score many goals and I prefer him out wide than through the middle.

Eunan has played 109 games for us and scored 13 goals. Billy, with a regular start and a fair wind, will get that next season alone. Danny is in my squad, but has been replaced by Bodin/Craig because they are better bets for the starting XI. Swindon are managed by a lunatic and his decisions are null and void and Crewe were on a 4216 game unbeaten run, they weren't going to change their team if they could help it.
I like Jarvo, but you're right, the jury is still out. Works his balls off though, and did create the goal for Rene which beat Accrington at our place.

royalgull wrote: We could play 4-4-2 easier now Bodin is here I'd agree with that, I'd be happy with him through the middle with Rene, with Danny and Jarvis out wide. But other than that I just see us weaker defensively, question marks over fitness over 3 of our new signings and possibly our only ball playing attacking creative midfielder we've got on his way out as well.

We have replaced our one ball playing central midfielder with Easton (more than capable), Bodin (on a par with Eunan for raw ability) and Craig (you mark my words, he'll be better than Eunan 3 years from now, and at present is an admirable understudy). If we have all three on the pitch at the same time, we are a much more creative and able attacking unit than we were last year.
There is no question mark. They have been unfit in the past, but are now fixed and ready to go.

Matt.