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the first time I have posted on the forum but as a paying fan I guess I am entitled to a voice. it is this continuous battering of Spiess by a posting minority on here and other social media sites that has promoted me to write. Get off the lads back he has had one poor game and if you sit back and think or have been also to away games you would know that he has for sure made some excellent saves and been down at players feet to claim the ball and made a large contribution to our points tally thus far. In fact as you run through MOTM proposals for the 8 games Spiess's name appears as proposed candidate in 5 of the 8 ...so if a player is amongst our fans MOTM for 65% of the matches played so far, how can we be so keen not to have him between the sticks??? Dan is a good young keeper but to think he is the savior is preposterous to say the least. All keepers at all levels make mistakes.. does some of our posters not watch MOTD ...any week you will see top class keepers earning big money making mistakes.... all players do just a keepers error is amplified. It would be interesting if our posters were on the man united forum when De Gea first joined the club. Lets face it he was not exactly convincing, its only because Fergusson stood by him that he remained in goals.
Can we ALL please get behind ALL of the team, reading criticism on social media will do nothing to boost the confidence of Spiess or any other or our players. Combined we together have a difficult season on and off the pitch, poor wages and club problems are enough distractions, our players will be far better served if we support them all as a team instead of dishing out undeserved critsism.... and for what its worth Saturdays take at the edge of the area was good goalkeeping... it a foul on Spiess all day long....I hope the appeal is successful and the red card revoked. Cox can then make his own decision who he wants between the sticks.

[quote="gullable"]the first time I have posted on the forum but as a paying fan I guess I am entitled to a voice. it is this continuous battering of Spiess by a posting minority on here and other social media sites that has promoted me to write. Get off the lads back he has had one poor game and if you sit back and think or have been also to away games you would know that he has for sure made some excellent saves and been down at players feet to claim the ball and made a large contribution to our points tally thus far. In fact as you run through MOTM proposals for the 8 games Spiess's name appears as proposed candidate in 5 of the 8 ...so if a player is amongst our fans MOTM for 65% of the matches played so far, how can we be so keen not to have him between the sticks??? Dan is a good young keeper but to think he is the savior is preposterous to say the least. All keepers at all levels make mistakes.. does some of our posters not watch MOTD ...any week you will see top class keepers earning big money making mistakes.... all players do just a keepers error is amplified. It would be interesting if our posters were on the man united forum when De Gea first joined the club. Lets face it he was not exactly convincing, its only because Fergusson stood by him that he remained in goals.
Can we ALL please get behind ALL of the team, reading criticism on social media will do nothing to boost the confidence of Spiess or any other or our players. Combined we together have a difficult season on and off the pitch, poor wages and club problems are enough distractions, our players will be far better served if we support them all as a team instead of dishing out undeserved critsism.... and for what its worth Saturdays take at the edge of the area was good goalkeeping... it a foul on Spiess all day long....I hope the appeal is successful and the red card revoked. Cox can then make his own decision who he wants between the sticks.[/quote

Aside from posting I have also done some research, as bigleigh shows Spiess was also at Liverpool earlier this year, additionally I found this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... enham.html
I think Cox knows what he is doing

I don't think that any ones got a problem with Speiss I think the problems been Lavercombes never been in contention, the manager has said today there is competition but I don't think that Lavercombe has been in competition for a place in the side.
I look at it now as it's up to Lavercombe now as he's got the jersey and see what happens Saturday!

Added in 12 minutes 22 seconds:

gullable wrote:Aside from posting I have also done some research, as bigleigh shows Spiess was also at Liverpool earlier this year, additionally I found this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... enham.html
I think Cox knows what he is doing

It's whats happening here and now that counts, did you know Speiss scored two own goals when on loan to Bristol Rovers last season and one was for us. This does not matter it's the past. It's tonights game that counts.
All clubs watch but did they put an offer in and where is he now?

Added in 2 minutes 59 seconds:

gullable wrote:Aside from posting I have also done some research, as bigleigh shows Spiess was also at Liverpool earlier this year, additionally I found this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... enham.html
I think Cox knows what he is doing

It's whats happening here and now that counts, did you know Speiss scored two own goals when on loan to Bristol Rovers last season and one was for us. This does not matter it's the past. It's tonights game that counts.
All clubs watch but did they put an offer in and where is he now?

arcadia but now you are contradicting your own post about Dan being a Liverpool....>>>>???
I am out of this...my point is get off the players back and support them All they are a squad and all will play an important part as the season unrolls ...so lets get with them instead of against them.

gullable wrote:arcadia but now you are contradicting your own post about Dan being a Liverpool....>>>>???
I am out of this...my point is get off the players back and support them All they are a squad and all will play an important part as the season unrolls ...so lets get with them instead of against them.

I have not mentioned Liverpool as far as I'm aware this was my opinion, I do agree with you with your last statement.

I like Lavercombe and he clearly has some potential, but some of the postings on here regarding both Lavercombe and Spiess are a bit wide of the mark. What I am about to post is not in criticism of Dan, but to counteract some of the postings on here.

Lavercombe may be a saleable asset for the club, but it is unlikely he will make us a fortune. Clubs don't spend big money on young players from a Conference club. Our best player in recent time, O'Kane, only got us a small upfront fee. Lavercombe will go for nowhere near that much. People comment on the fact that Liverpool have trialled him. One big club trialling a young player (along with a bunch of other players) does not make him the next future Prem star. As pointed out elsewhere Spiess was also watched by a number of big clubs at a similar age and is now playing for us. Its clearly no guarantee of future success.

If Lavercombe were as good as some people are claiming on here he would either be our first choice number one regardless of his age, or a club higher up the pyramid would have snapped him up by now in the same way Ives left us. The fact is Cox sees them both on a daily basis, and regardless of potential, see Spiess as the better option. Cox is picking the best 11, and he clearly sees Spiess as better than Lavercombe at present.

Of course Cox should try and improve our talented youngsters where possible, but his first aim is always to win football matches and that means picking the best available players.

Lavercombe has not had a chance yet because Spiess has played well in the majority of games, not because Cox hasn't been willing to play him. Spiess was his first choice, played well but made couple of errors. If Cox were to make changes after every error made, we would have no consistency, and a keeper devoid of confidence. If Lavercombe then made the same mistakes, we have two keepers low on confidence.

Dan will no doubt get his chance tonight, and I hope he really takes it with both hands. However we should all be getting behind whoever plays in goal, and become a bit more realistic in Lavercombe's value as both a player and saleable asset.

Loved the post from Leetufc and I totally agree so to tonite 2 1 to the yellows COYY

leetufc wrote:I like Lavercombe and he clearly has some potential, but some of the postings on here regarding both Lavercombe and Spiess are a bit wide of the mark. What I am about to post is not in criticism of Dan, but to counteract some of the postings on here.

Lavercombe may be a saleable asset for the club, but it is unlikely he will make us a fortune. Clubs don't spend big money on young players from a Conference club. Our best player in recent time, O'Kane, only got us a small upfront fee. Lavercombe will go for nowhere near that much. People comment on the fact that Liverpool have trialled him. One big club trialling a young player (along with a bunch of other players) does not make him the next future Prem star. As pointed out elsewhere Spiess was also watched by a number of big clubs at a similar age and is now playing for us. Its clearly no guarantee of future success.

If Lavercombe were as good as some people are claiming on here he would either be our first choice number one regardless of his age, or a club higher up the pyramid would have snapped him up by now in the same way Ives left us. The fact is Cox sees them both on a daily basis, and regardless of potential, see Spiess as the better option. Cox is picking the best 11, and he clearly sees Spiess as better than Lavercombe at present.

Of course Cox should try and improve our talented youngsters where possible, but his first aim is always to win football matches and that means picking the best available players.

Lavercombe has not had a chance yet because Spiess has played well in the majority of games, not because Cox hasn't been willing to play him. Spiess was his first choice, played well but made couple of errors. If Cox were to make changes after every error made, we would have no consistency, and a keeper devoid of confidence. If Lavercombe then made the same mistakes, we have two keepers low on confidence.

Dan will no doubt get his chance tonight, and I hope he really takes it with both hands. However we should all be getting behind whoever plays in goal, and become a bit more realistic in Lavercombe's value as both a player and saleable asset.

That's exactly the message I've been trying to get across, you've managed to put it across in words, so much better that I have.

forevertufc wrote: That's exactly the message I've been trying to get across, you've managed to put it across in words, so much better that I have.

I'm sorry but I agree with most you have said but I believe and could be wrong that Speiss signed as no.1 because since he signed Lavercombe has not played even though Speiss made mistakes at Tiverton and his first home game as I said previously lets put it to
bed.

arcadia wrote: Lavercombe has not done this he has made a mistake but gets over over it what your talking about is rubbish Lavercombe may only get about £100,000 if he is able to continue his progress. Lavercombe will have clubs watching I assure you now it's up to him if he is picked. The sale on clause is what will make the money for Torquay but lets leave him to prove to everyone he's the player we want him to be.
The club would not be playing him to save the club we would be playing him because he's the best keeper in the club. lavercombe is special!
JUST REMEMBER Banks made his debut at 21, Clements at 18, Mervyn Day at 18 I'm not saying Dan is a Banks but given the chance why not!
The trouble with this country not enough youngsters are played whilst they are young to learn off of the star players at a high level but when they do get the chance we see a gem if they are treated right.

I just do not understand why you can not fathom where I'm coming from, I AM NOT DENYING THE TALENT AND POTENTIAL OF DAN LAVERCOMBE. For someone who claims to be an ex-professional, a manager and scout, you really show such a lack of knowledge and a scant disrespect for young and upcoming players, truly worrying, English footballing graveyard is absolutely full players in there late 20's who'd showed great potential as teenagers, players who had their careers destroyed, because of the clamour in this country to find the next big thing, players who were mishandled, subjected to much weight of expectation an pressure to young, players who ended up with over-use injuries. Just look at Jack Wilshere, Theo Wallcot, and so,so many more, and we wonder why their injured all the time.

I look towards countries like Spain, Germany and others with real jealousy, we ask why they can develop players and we can't in this country, just have to look at the education and development programmes, Spanish and German players are "not" subjected to 38 x 90 minutes of football until their at least 21, they tend play a lot of "B" team football, and are introduced gradually and slowly into first team football as U21's.

I'm glad you mentioned Mervyn Day and Ray Clemence, two perfect examples.

Mervyn Day, yes did make his debut at 18. A player described in the press as the new "boy wonder" experts and pundits alike, said, he'd go on to be the finest keeper ever known in this country, would be an England ever present. England caps 0 , Mervyn Day ended playing 397 games in division 2 (championship) personal honours, 1x F.A cup winners, 1X division 2 winners medal, a player who's career was destroyed by injuries and a massive loss in form, highly likely to have been caused by far to much pressure an expectation placed on his shoulders at a very early age.

A real stark warning of what can happen when a young player is not handled correctly.

Ray Clemence, yes another player who made his debut at 18 for Scunnie, however, he did not play regular first team football until the age of 22 at Liverpool, and player who was handled correctly, developed gradually and looked after. Clemence, England caps 61 , won every single major domestic and European honours more than once.

A player that went on to be everything Mervyn Day should have been but wasn't.

All I'm saying is, to thrust Dan Lavercmbe into first team action in the hope of selling him because our clubs desperate for a few quid, would be, both a disgusting and diabolical miss-use of a young talented player. Torquay United and Paul Cox have a duty of care to look after all our young players, especially young Dan Lavercombe, so hopefully one day, us TUFC fans can look on with pride as we watch him on match of day playing for atop premier league club, not look back in ten years and see Dan Lavercombe become the next Saul Halpin .

Do you get it now ?

Added in 18 minutes 1 second:

arcadia wrote:
I'm sorry but I agree with most you have said but I believe and could be wrong that Speiss signed as no.1 because since he signed Lavercombe has not played even though Speiss made mistakes at Tiverton and his first home game as I said previously lets put it to
bed.

forevertufc wrote: I just do not understand why you can not fathom where I'm coming from, I AM NOT DENYING THE TALENT AND POTENTIAL OF DAN LAVERCOMBE. For someone who claims to be an ex-professional, a manager and scout, you really show such a lack of knowledge and a scant disrespect for young and upcoming players, truly worrying, English footballing graveyard is absolutely full players in there late 20's who'd showed great potential as teenagers, players who had their careers destroyed, because of the clamour in this country to find the next big thing, players who were mishandled, subjected to much weight of expectation an pressure to young, players who ended up with over-use injuries. Just look at Jack Wilshere, Theo Wallcot, and so,so many more, and we wonder why their injured all the time.

I look towards countries like Spain, Germany and others with real jealousy, we ask why they can develop players and we can't in this country, just have to look at the education and development programmes, Spanish and German players are "not" subjected to 38 x 90 minutes of football until their at least 21, they tend play a lot of "B" team football, and are introduced gradually and slowly into first team football as U21's.

I'm glad you mentioned Mervyn Day and Ray Clemence, two perfect examples.

Mervyn Day, yes did make his debut at 18. A player described in the press as the new "boy wonder" experts and pundits alike, said, he'd go on to be the finest keeper ever known in this country, would be an England ever present. England caps 0 , Mervyn Day ended playing 397 games in division 2



(championship) personal honours, 1x F.A cup winners, 1X division 2 winners medal, a player who's career was destroyed by injuries and a massive loss in form, highly likely to have been caused by far to much pressure an expectation placed on his shoulders at a very early age.

A real stark warning of what can happen when a young player is not handled correctly.

Ray Clemence, yes another player who made his debut at 18 for Scunnie, however, he did not play regular first team football until the age of 22 at Liverpool, and player who was handled correctly, developed gradually and looked after. Clemence, England caps 61 , won every single major domestic and European honours more than once.

A player that went on to be everything Mervyn Day should have been but wasn't.

All I'm saying is, to thrust Dan Lavercmbe into first team action in the hope of selling him because our clubs desperate for a few quid, would be, both a disgusting and diabolical miss-use of a young talented player. Torquay United and Paul Cox have a duty of care to look after all our young players, especially young Dan Lavercombe, so hopefully one day, us TUFC fans can look on with pride as we watch him on match of day playing for atop premier league club, not look back in ten years and see Dan Lavercombe become the next Saul Halpin .

Do you get it now ?

Added in 18 minutes 1 second:

We will have to agree to disagree as we will never see I to eye. I have not talked about money and all I've talked about giving the best player a chance the money side I've not considered because that comes with success. The money side of it came from you by the way we are 1-2 up.

I know, and what have I said on this thread about James Hurst.

forevertufc wrote:I know, and what have I said on this thread about James Hurst.

Thats a sure thing if he keeps scoring but defending is a bit suspect could improve with fitness and games.