What needs to happen ...

[Burnhamgull]

Yea I used to be a fan of Briscoe but he doesn't contribute like he used to so Arcadia's suggestion is a good one. I just can't think of anyone in the squad who could fill the left hand side of the midfield.

[Dave_Pougher]

I'd experiment with the 4-2-3-1 formation suggested by DaveCaldwell.

Berry, McDonald, Smith, Butler
Richards, Fenwick
Shepherd, Briscoe, Wright
Fairhurst

Wright did well when he came on yesterday so I'd play him on the left of the attacking midfield three but he could switch with Shep throughout the game.

What! No Nicholson at left back! Are you mad!
I don't care if it's only me and him that thinks he's still good enough to play at National league, level their all wrong!
No actually it's just him that thinks that.

[Rjc70]

Seems to be a few suggesting putting Carmichael at left mid. Has he ever played there in his life? In that 4-2-3-1, if we went for that, I'd put him where Fenwick is alongside Richards and swap Briscoe for Fenwick in terms of the three in front of them.

What's happened to Fenwick, btw? Is he injured?

[davidcaldwell123]

Defensively 4-2-3-1 executed correctly is a good flexible system, it creates a triangle of cover, players are less isolated and exposed to attacks. The strategy behind the system is to condense the game and funnel the opposition attacks into the areas where you have strength in numbers, when played correctly you break up more attacks 10-20 yards outside your box, funnelling an attacking opponent into bodies stops the opposition getting in behind you as much. Once you break up the attack, you need to turn your defensive strategy into an offensive one, this is all about finding space and moving the ball quick in the final 3rd movement and good runs are key to a positive offensive strategy.

I would suggest caution when adopting any system, if you feel this system suits the strengths of the team then I would work on it in training, you need to make sure you drill the roles and responsibilities of the individuals, units, then collectively as a team, I would only go live with it once the players, not only understand their own role and responsibilities, they understand all the positions roles and responsibilities.

Once you have this in place and stick to becoming extremely efficient at executing the system plan, you will find it is easier to identify areas of weaknesses and where mistakes are being made, which in return allows you to fix issues based on not following the plan instead of focusing on individual mistakes players make when they are isolated and under pressure, the plan is for them not to be isolated and under pressure if you execute the plan correctly.

[Dave]

Defensively 4-2-3-1 executed correctly is a good flexible system.

Nail hit firmly on the head there, as I'm sure you know as someone who's been in the game, to make a system work a team has to have the right players, and players with the ability to make a particular system work.

That's why I'm of the belief in my humble opinion the lower down the levels you go, the more you simplify the game. This system worked well under Martin Ling because he had the players, Rene Howe held the ball up allowing the midfield time to support attacking play, Howe weighed with a few goals to boot, who in the current squad could do that, well, easy answer, no one.

The system worked because Lingy had a player like O'Kane driving the attacking play from midfield, the only play we have now is Young who's out for pretty much the whole season, it worked because Mansell could and did run box to box all day and night long, and when all else failed Ojenik tidied things up at the back, we have two kids as keepers.

Watching the Lincoln game, I don't see enough players in this squad, with the heart, desire, fitness and particularly the ability to make such a system work, and the biggest Problem of the lot, our current squad can't defend a set piece for toffee, so regardless of systems your always thinking please don't give away a corner of free-kick any where near our box.

[nickbrod]

With both Barrow and Gateshead sacking their managers today perhaps our current Board will sit up and take notice.

Added in 23 minutes 43 seconds:

According to the OS we're playing Bideford on Tuesday evening as a friendly. More likely getting us used to the level of football that's around the corner.
Also on the OS our new media wizard tells us we can have a hospitality SUIT at Forest Green, I'll have mine from M&S!

Good to see that somebody at the club must read all this since the headline's been changed to 'suites'! Pity they don't carry out all the other suggestions.

[moneylife]

So Braintree on Saturday... But what I wonder is, they've spent most of their existence in League South or lower, they never get near 1000 attendance, they dont get any parachute payouts. Yet their Eleven men matchday side arent letting in 4 goals a game!!!!
No excuses TUFC just get the fuk out there on Saturday and get some points on the board!!! And keep a clean sheet for once. No excuses about money or nothing. If Braintree can make signings so can we.
Oh wait, maybe the Braintree coaches actually have some connections and have made some calls to secure some loans and low contract players.

Anyway, I'm feelin te negativity a lot now and finding it hard to control it. I HATE WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO TORQUAY!! BRING BACK MIKE BATESON LOL

[OllieGull]

Looking at the Whitehawk line up from tonight, baring in mind they're a league below us. They have playing for them: Jake Robinson (I'm sure we all know), Scott Neilson (scored a fair few goals for Grimsby in the last 2 seasons), and Sam Deering (60+ league appearances for Cheltenham). All these players have pretty good pedigree yet we struggle to attract any decent players?

[moneylife]

Yes we seem to be getting palmed off with total rejects for some reason. Wish i knew why we r so bad since last couple of years

[Gulliball]

Whitehawk are a bankrolled club. Their potential is as far as their backers are willing to fund, not the crowds they get through the gates. At this level revenue is largely crowds + owner backing. We are currently relying 100% on money we generate ourselves, competing against sides that have person(s) willing to make-up any differences.

Let's not forget that Torquay United lost £700k and £600k in the two seasons we spent down here 2007-2009. We would not have been promoted within two years (or at all?) without the money of the Bristows. That £1.3m allowed us to cherry pick the Nicholsons, Hargreaves, Sills, Todds etc of the division to compete at the top end. Just like we would not have a new stand, or be able to just write off £3m of debt without the money from the Bristows. We have had our time living ahead of our means with a backer making up the difference. Now others are doing this while we are suffering by living within our means. That's why teams you think are small have more money than us.

[PhilGull]

Whitehawk are a bankrolled club. Their potential is as far as their backers are willing to fund, not the crowds they get through the gates. At this level revenue is largely crowds + owner backing. We are currently relying 100% on money we generate ourselves, competing against sides that have person(s) willing to make-up any differences.

Let's not forget that Torquay United lost £700k and £600k in the two seasons we spent down here 2007-2009. We would not have been promoted within two years (or at all?) without the money of the Bristows. That £1.3m allowed us to cherry pick the Nicholsons, Hargreaves, Sills, Todds etc of the division to compete at the top end. Just like we would not have a new stand, or be able to just write off £3m of debt without the money from the Bristows. We have had our time living ahead of our means with a backer making up the difference. Now others are doing this while we are suffering by living within our means. That's why teams you think are small have more money than us.

Most intelligent thing I've read on here in a while.

[CP Gull]

This is the reality of our situation.

When you look at the make up of the National League, there are around half a dozen teams (Tranmere, Wrexham, Grimsby, Lincoln, Chester, Cheltenham etc) who are "bigger" than us in terms of the gates they are getting. There are also a few "smaller" teams (FGR, Eastleigh etc) who are, largely because of having wealthy backers, able to blow our budget out of the water, who are now edging ever closer to our sort of gates - simply because of the ambition of the clubs and the draw of following Aaron ambitious, successful, winning team! Then you have a number of "smaller" teams (Dover, Braintree, Bromley etc) who because of where they are located (South East) are able to operate a highly successful part time model on gates considerably smaller than ours. They can do that, because just as in the past, wher we have been unable to convince part time players to sign for us and turn pro - these players are more than capable of playing at a higher level but the combination of part time football and meaningful outside employment doesn't make it attractive financially for them to do so. These clubs will always be hindered by having small followings, they are unlikely to progress (or survive) in the Football League but they are more than capable of surviving at this level provided they get their recruitment right.

In straightened times like these, we as a football cub are now having to survive on just the income that we produce, without the benefit of inward investment by a wealthy backer(s) we are, in the words of Paul Cox no longer "big boys" in this League.

We are in effect, more similar to the likes of Kidderminster, Aldershot, Macclesfield etc at this moment in time - all clubs who have enjoyed spells in the Football League and who still generate reasonable attendances but don't have any money/wealthy backers. There are also a number of well established part time teams at this level who have Managers who KNOW what is required to survive at this level - they may not quite match our attendances but they can usually produce pretty solid teams who manage to compete (Woking, Altrincham etc) It is these teams, together with a small group of well run part time teams who are really punching above their weight (Welling, Boreham Wood, Guiseley etc) that in reality we are competing against.

What clubs like ours need in this situation is stability both on and off the pitch and if you get that it can work - I would give you Macclesfield as a prime example - a well run club, smaller than us, who are still able to be very competitive it seems. They even flirted with the play offs last season and are going well again this season too. It is this sort of model we should strive to match, in the absence of a sugar daddy - but you need stability - for all sorts of reasons we have had nothing approaching that over the last six months - and when chaos reins that is when you see clubs in the sort of free fall we now find ourselves in.

Unfortunately, the last thing we have been is "stable" over the last few years in my opinion. Despite giving the facade of stability, the previous owners were just papering over the cracks in reality as the club has been in decline for the last four years - far too reliant on the generosity of one individual whilst at the same time not paying any due care and attention to how a football club at our level needed to be run sensibly - with the wrong people put in charge to oversee matters.

In order to survive this season on just what we produce, we needed in the summer to make good decisions and throw in some luck for good measure. Unfortunately, we got neither - our bad luck probably started BEFORE the new consortium even took over when Mark Bowen of MB Insolvency Services ( who was rumoured to be a main player) pulled out - we could surely have done with his expertise on board! Subsequently, almost half of the new consortium just "melted away" within months - we may never know the real reasons why - but personal and business reasons pretty much covers everything anyway, I guess!

Bad luck also came our way on the field too, when our best player Luke Young got injured and (probably) ruled himself out for the season, further injury to Waide Fairhurst and then the loss of top scorer Ryan Bowman and more recently James Hurst has further blighted our chances of survival - whether the losses of these two was preventable, or not, we don't really know - but both of them allied to the loss of Young have been huge losses to the team and our chances of survival.

As for the decision making, it was always going to be the case that the new owners were going to have to make some big and painful calls - to put right the years of spending as if there was no tomorrow under the previous regime - so the Academy went straight away together with all the staff and of course several other jobs were cut in order to streamline the business. All unfortunate decisions but I think most of us recognised the need to "cut our cloth" accordingly.

Perhaps the biggest call though, and in hindsight the one that carried the greatest risk to the stability of the club, was the decision to place Hargreaves/Hodges and Veysey on gardening leave - with 12 months left on their ( expensive) contracts. I don't think too many called the decision into question at the time, particularly not when we quickly replaced them with a management team with a successful track record in Paul Cox and John Ramshaw. Hargreaves had overseen 18 months of failure with the club losing it's League status and then after a bright start in the Conference National, we saw a rapid decline down the league table - although it should perhaps be remembered that we did actually finish with something of a flourish to give our final league standing (13th) something more close to respectability. Whilst no great tactician in my opinion, Hargreaves did at least bring in some decent recruits ( Young, Bowman, Ajala, MacDonald, Briscoe - the 2014 version at least!) and we will never know now whether with "his team" - bereft of the duds (Tonge, Harding, Benyon, etc) on the wage bill, would have fared any better (on a vastly reduced budget) than where we find ourselves now. I actually feel, with that greater stability, even on a reduced playing budget, we would probably be OK now, nothing spectacular but OK.

Whilst, many of us fans were of course in favour of the decision to change the management team, what we didn't know and couldn't know, which the new Board did, was at what cost this decision would be to the football club. Unlike the Board, we didn't at that time know whether they had substantial funds to throw at it, or not, and likewise we didn't know at what cost to the playing budget these decisions would ultimately have - all we knew was that we were stuck with having to pay them for the 12 months remaining on their contracts - what we ( the fans) don't know but they ( the Board) do is actually how much that equates to in £££s. In the benefit of hindsight I now think that was the wrong decision - simply because we couldn't afford it and ultimately are we really any better off under a new management team of Nicholson/Herrera? We MIGHT be, but no one knows yet whether these two have got what it takes simply because they have never done the job before and whilst Nico continues to pick himself as a player, you could argue he isn't really doing the job fully now, and likewise we don't know whether he will be any good at recruitment because we ain't got any money and so he can't recruit anyway!!!!

Of course, looking back, the new Board put a lot of faith and trust in Paul Cox who we were always told was in it for the "long haul" unfortunately that trust turned out to be misplaced as he upped and left within a few short months having blown the budget and, quite frankly, left us with a bloated squad rammed full of players, a lot of whom are quite clearly not up to the required standard. As for Cox, well you can only really make such bold statements about his long term future at the club when you have the Manager tied to a contract - the sort of one (three and a half years long!!!) that Barrow have just given him.

Whether Nico is the answer, time will only tell, but on the face of it at least the new owners have fallen into the very same trap that led the previous bunch to appoint Chris Hargreaves in the first place - the "safe" option of appointing a previous player who enjoyed success (failure too, mind) on the pitch with us. They are not alone, the likes of Impey, Compton, Saunders, Hodges et al have all gone before them , without it must be said much success. The cheap, local but" POPULAR ex player " option has proved all too much of a preferred route for TUFC Boards to go down from Mike Bateson onwards - whether Nico can turn things around is anyone's guess and in reality his appointment can only have been made with that amount of consideration. No one really KNOWS if he will be any good - but he certainly handles himself well and is both intelligent and articulate - all qualities which I am sure impressed the board .... but what about his CV?

Ironic really that just a couple of months before, Dean Edwards (Director of Football) at a fans forum was asked the question as to whether Kevin Nicholson might be considered as an ideal appointment to assist the newly appointed Paul Cox - the notion was dismissed by Edwards as he felt that "Nico needs to go out and learn his trade somewhere lower down the leagues" before stepping into a job at this level - there were I am sure plenty of "nodding heads" around the top table at this suggestion - certainly no one took Edwards to task over the comment - how ironic then that those very same people should appoint him, not as an Assistant, but as our actual Manager a couple of months later!!! What is also ironic, is that one could mischievously have asked Edwards himself what qualifications HE HAD to be a Directof of Football at a National League club too .... ah well, such is the way at TUFC.

It seems that having played for the club at some point, is far more important than what is actually down on your CV when it comes to making managerial appointments at TUFC. The "appointment" (it never really happened in truth though did it) of Cox and Ramshaw seemed to break the mould - but it didn't last long and as it stands a large part of TUFC's budget this season will have been taken up PAYING Hargreaves, Hodges, Veysey, Nicholson, Herrera and even Edwards himself - all decent enough players in the past - when we really could have done with that money being paid out on an individual(s) who is simply the best candidate for the job (of managing TUFC) based on his CV, rather than what anyone might have achieved for the club on the playing side in the dim and distant past!

[Sesimbra]

An excellent summing up of the Club's present position CP. It was the sort of posting I was considering myself but did not have all the facts to hand. I particularly agree with the last two paragraphs. Well said.

[Gloomy Gull]

CP

That is a brilliant post which I enjoyed reading - thank you.

Well thought out, very balanced and intelligently presented.

[davidcaldwell123]

CP, good post, this is a great site for sharing information and views, most of them are very constructive and sensible, but it also must be difficult for supporters to have to disseminate from fact, fiction and rumours to objectively voice a constructive opinion, hence where I think much of the frustration comes from.

My father played professional for 18 years, when I was one year old, my father player for Toronto City against Real Madrid in an exhibition match in Canada, he played with Stanley Matthews and other greats of his time, they played against the likes of Di Stéfano, Puskas, Gento and the rest of the players named the "team of kings". Interesting thing was both my father and I said we learned more about football after we finished playing and I think its true to say you get a better holistic view of the game when you can watch an analyse it from a managers perspective, the things that matter in performance when you are a player, don't relate to the same things when you are a manager or coach, the game takes on a completely different perspective and you only realise this when you have been on the journey.

I attended a meeting at the university on a business project I am working on with regards to football development across psychology, nutrition and physiology (Strength, Conditioning and Agility). With 3 professors in the room we discussed the ability element of a players make-up, many names were thrown about and more important the attributes of these players, although all the players had different attributes speed, skill, crossing ability, passing, work rate, the one professor asked so if you were baking a cake what would be the first ingredient you would put in the bowl, everyone said mind-set and the reason, without the right mind-set the ability can be lost in the emotions of the game or players life in general which ultimately effects performance, how many players including myself would have played at a higher level with more commitment and a better mind-set.

When at Mansfield Iain Greaves was manager, we fell out about my off pitch antics and I was put on the transfer list, we were in the bottom four at the time and needed points, the manager wanted to make a point that my antics would not tolerated and he made an example of me. He then called me into the office on the Thursday and said sit down, he said " I just want you to be the best, you have great ability and I don't want you sitting at home when your 40 thinking regretting your actions and life, I want you to go out on Saturday and prove me wrong, as I think you don't have it in you to prove me wrong" I scored 4 goals against Aldershot on the Saturday and 3 the next against Hartlepool, I finished the season with 23 goals and we stayed up.

When I arrived at Torquay Cyril Knowles signed me at the Livercliff Mead Hotel, he sold the palm trees, nightclubs, women, sun beaches and all, after I signed the contract he told me I had under achieved for my ability and I was unfit, he went on to tell me training starts tomorrow, be in for 8.30 as your not fit and Norman Medhurst was taking me out running up steps and hillsides, he went on to say if he see me out in nightclubs drinking he fine me two weeks wages and I was there to win games and leagues, not to be a playboy! The team that season punched above its weight, everyone game 100% and we missed out on promotion via the play offs, but had a great cup run.

As Iain Greaves said I would sit at home and regret not playing at a higher level and he was right, but you have to go on the journey to understand this, its something every player should appreciate every time they get out of bed in the morning, as trust me, no matter what bravado they give you 99% of them will sit at home in the future and regret they never applied themselves to every single minute of their footballing journey.

I hope this provides some insight into a game that can make you smile, frustrated, cry and scream at times, but its still a great game, we just need to get back on track, the chairman is a great guy, lets support him and the club forward to better things.