Torquay United v York City - 5/10/13

[AustrianAndyGull]

I obviously respect the length of time you may have supported Torquay Hector and in the back of my mind I feel you may be right about Knill long term but we can't tell anything after ten games. Last season I expressed concern after 10 games under Ling that we were playing exactly the same every week, it was ineffective and dull and we were struggling for results. After 20 games Ling hadn't changed it and so we got worse and it was obvious it had been coming, after 30 games Ling had 'gone' and we were in real sh*t and after 40 odd we had avoided relegation.

What i'm saying is that after 20 odd games the scene is set and we can see where we are then.

[wodger of awabia]

You obviously haven't been watching TUFC for as long as I have. Sometimes the writing is on the wall but people just do not want to read it.

I actually do not think Knill will last long. It just has that feeling, almost, of an interim manager. I can't see him being a fixture here in the way Tisdale is at Exeter or even how I thought Ling would be before his 'illness' claimed him. I would imagine that by half way through next season someone else will be picking the team. I don't think Knill connects with supporters and by the sounds of it, the players. His credentials as a manager, judging by the comments at Plainmoor yesterday, appear to be espoused by a minority. The majority are probably non-plussed and wouldn't care if he went or stayed.

Yes, but If he is still here next season then we could be back in the Conference

[tomogull]

We lost 3-0 at home to York without any centre halves. We still have Billy Bodin playing and not scoring too so it's extenuating circumstances. 50% Knills fault and 25% bad luck and 25% crap players. Not the end of the world. Move on to Wycombe and let's see if we can get something there all.

Andy - just to put you right on your throwaway comment about not having any centre halves, the new lad, Anthony O'Connor, was in my view MOTM and Tom Cruise was not far behind. Okay - they were not Downes and Pearce but in no way could they be blamed for yesterday's mess which was primarily caused by Knill's insistence on playing two out-and-out wingers, neither of whom created anything during the whole match, and having no creativity in midfield. Rice should have saved the second and third goals. Even if Downes and Pearce were fit to play, we would still have lost.

Matt - re the York Fans Site, if we'd just beaten Portsmouth 4 - 2 and won away 3 - 0, you'd be on here telling us what a great team we are - dead certs for promotion. Good luck to them - they won't be in the relegation struggle this season.

[Robiberto22]

Er i still have Leroys number by the way ...

In all seriousness - if we were to be unreasonable and sack ol' knill tomorrow - who would we get in to make it
better?

I'm not panicking till after x-mas if were still in the mire then i'll be worried as of course as we all know, the potential is there - that's the frustrating thing about it, if it hasn't come together by January it may not come together at all.

[usagullmichigan]

Christ, I just had a look on the York forum. They're convinced they were a good side and that they beat us because they were good, rather than us being as bad as we were.

Good news lads, if that was a good York performance, we can wave goodbye to them and Accrington come May and we'll be safe. They were bloody hopeless. If we hadn't collapsed as spectacularly as we did, they could still be out there now and they wouldn't have scored.

Sorry York, but it's true.

Matt.

Nope they are just as deluded as you.

[AustrianAndyGull]

new lad, Anthony O'Connor, was in my view MOTM and Tom Cruise was not far behind. Okay - they were not Downes and Pearce but in no way could they be blamed for yesterday's mess which was primarily caused by Knill's insistence on playing two out-and-out wingers, neither of whom created anything during the whole match, and having no creativity in midfield. Rice should have saved the second and third goals. Even if Downes and Pearce were fit to play, we would still have lost.

Matt - re the York Fans Site, if we'd just beaten Portsmouth 4 - 2 and won away 3 - 0, you'd be on here telling us what a great team we are - dead certs for promotion. Good luck to them - they won't be in the relegation struggle this season.

You are right tomogull. I did dismiss the O'Connor / Cruise partnership as a dead loss without even giving them a chance and it was probably a throwaway comment. O'Connor has just come in and shouldn't be under the pressure he is under at the moment ie an inexperienced player not involved in any first team football this season playing one of the key positions for a now struggling side. He is now expected to hold everything together with Cruise who to his credit isn't a centre half and has had to marshall that centre of defence.

They both have a tough task and are under a lot of pressure and I totally understand that and I didn't want my comments to sound like I thought they were both crap and we've got no chance before a ball is kicked. All I was trying to say is my opinion that however good a job they do they are more likely than not to be part of a defence that will now generally concede goals. I didn't set out to blame them for yesterday although it sounded like that and again this highlights the difficulty in trying to post an opinion based on a game that I wasn't present at. I was perhaps rash and incorrect however we did still concede 3 goals to a team considered by and large very poor.

They both have a mammoth undertaking which we must fully support them with but that is not to say I believe we will suddenly stop letting goals in.

Hope this explains things a bit tomo.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Again it appears to be Knill's team selections and tactics that have caused problems.

[brucie]

Whilst I wasn't at the game had I seen the team line up I would have almost guaranteed a defeat. Of course O'Connor cannot be blamed but he hasn't played any first team football this season and for all his experience at Burton he has no football league experience playing at centre half. Cruise just isn't a centre half either.
Rice is regressing - he just isn't up to standard, he has been letting in a goal a game for weeks now and by all accounts let in two soft ones on Saturday.
We cannot possibly have the finances to sack the manager so basically we seem to be stuck with needing some sort of miracle at this stage of the season.
For all our short comings up front if you put Poke,Pearce and Downes in the team I think we would probably steer clear of relegation.
Knill has been exceptionally unlucky to lose these three players.
There might be only ten games gone but as things stand it does seem that in ten games time with the current personnel our position is more than likely going to be worse than in is already, as we are just not going to win games with the current line up.
I don't honestly know where we go from here and have no idea what the answer is. We need (minimum) an experienced centre half and a reliable goalkeeper, not another two nineteen year olds.
If the money isn't there, which presumably it isn't we look like sitting ducks for other teams to take shooting practice.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Knill has been desperately unlucky with injuries but I feel he just needs to tweak things in each area and play his best 11. As much as I love Nico we should have started with Cruise from day 1 as he is the future and a quicker, fitter player. Many of us said this to be fair even before we found out just how much Nico was struggling. It made perfect sense to me but not to Knill obviously.

It is just incorrect selection, bizarre substitutions often and a lack of a gameplan which makes us look like a wobbly jelly, all over the place at times. The players don't seem to be well drilled and some of them dare I say seem to lack the oomph that nearly cost us last year.

It's a shame because I feel we have the squad to be comfortably mid table and playing some top stuff at times, look at Hartlepool. They have just won 4-1 at Mansfield. Would any of their fans have thought these last 3 weeks or so would have seen them one of the leagues form teams? They were down and out supposedly after 5 games. It can be done and yes, I suppose Knill has to be culpable for not giving us the 'Hartlepool effect' because he has the players at his disposal but he isn't getting much out of them.

[wodger of awabia]

Knill has been desperately unlucky with injuries but I feel he just needs to tweak things in each area and play his best 11. As much as I love Nico we should have started with Cruise from day 1 as he is the future and a quicker, fitter player. Many of us said this to be fair even before we found out just how much Nico was struggling. It made perfect sense to me but not to Knill obviously.

It is just incorrect selection, bizarre substitutions often and a lack of a gameplan which makes us look like a wobbly jelly, all over the place at times. The players don't seem to be well drilled and some of them dare I say seem to lack the oomph that nearly cost us last year.

It's a shame because I feel we have the squad to be comfortably mid table and playing some top stuff at times, look at Hartlepool. They have just won 4-1 at Mansfield. Would any of their fans have thought these last 3 weeks or so would have seen them one of the leagues form teams? They were down and out supposedly after 5 games. It can be done and yes, I suppose Knill has to be culpable for not giving us the 'Hartlepool effect' because he has the players at his disposal but he isn't getting much out of them.

Yes, I agree the manager is crap!

[Dave]

Is it?

First I've heard of it.

That depends on who you speak to, I heard it from several fans on Saturday, One of the lads laided off by the club is someone I have known personaly for many years before he even got a job at TUFC, he has since confirmed it to be the case. I am led to believe one was the club's media man, not sure how true that is though.

As a general point, Supergulls and Matt are spot on, the club is all out of money, I said it Saturday in a post, the club is desperate for new investment. So go on, lets sack Alan Knill and Chris Brass would probably go aswell, lets add their pay off's to the club's accounts, that seriously would be the end of it, last one out turn the lights off.

Our only hope then would be to make Nico manager, and fill the squad full of £50 a week youth's from the Southern League, thats why I say we have only one choice left, back AK and the team.

[brucie]

What are mike bateson and dan macauley doing at the moment?

[tomogull]

(quote) You are right tomogull. I did dismiss the O'Connor / Cruise partnership as a dead loss without even giving them a chance and it was probably a throwaway comment. O'Connor has just come in and shouldn't be under the pressure he is under at the moment ie an inexperienced player not involved in any first team football this season playing one of the key positions for a now struggling side. He is now expected to hold everything together with Cruise who to his credit isn't a centre half and has had to marshall that centre of defence.

They both have a tough task and are under a lot of pressure and I totally understand that and I didn't want my comments to sound like I thought they were both crap and we've got no chance before a ball is kicked. All I was trying to say is my opinion that however good a job they do they are more likely than not to be part of a defence that will now generally concede goals. I didn't set out to blame them for yesterday although it sounded like that and again this highlights the difficulty in trying to post an opinion based on a game that I wasn't present at. I was perhaps rash and incorrect however we did still concede 3 goals to a team considered by and large very poor.

They both have a mammoth undertaking which we must fully support them with but that is not to say I believe we will suddenly stop letting goals in.

Hope this explains things a bit tomo. [/quote]

Good post, Andy. If O'connor plays as he did on Saturday, I think you will be impressed when you next visit one of your Northern strongholds. For a 19 year old, he's organised and skillful. However, I have to add that he and Cruise weren't overly tested by York's 'strike force'. In another post, you said that the players lacked a certain 'oomph'. That sums it up perfectly. I don't think anyone could accuse them of not putting in effort - there's just something missing.

In yet another post !!! you put it down to Knill's team selection. Well ..... perhaps. What I am noticing is that he seems incapable of changing things with substitutions which is part of the game now. He takes off a striker and brings on a striker. He takes off a winger and brings on a winger. After the Exeter/Plymouth match, I heard Paul Tisdale say "At 1 - 1, I decided to change it around a bit (i.e. change the formation)". City went on to win 3 - 1. Tisdale is a very astute manager. I'm not sure that Alan Knill is.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Thanks tomo.

[CP Gull]

Some perspective needed by some on here, hugely disappointing though the performance (2nd half) and result was on Saturday though.

Having taken the time to have a look back at the goals, it's clear that individual errors were to blame for all three of the goals scored on Saturday.

While, like quite a few on here have suggested, I came away from Plainmoor on Saturday thinking that young O 'Connor had a decent enough game, the reality is that for all the good qualities he showed, he was turned far too easily for the first goal, gave away the free kick that led to the second and then lost his man at a corner kick giving their centre half a free header and Jarvis a simple tap in.

Despite his vastly improved performances on the whole this season I think Martin Rice will be disappointed with the second goal which looked like a routine tip over to me and not only that but given the sort of form he has been in this season you might have expected him to get a better block on the header that led to the third goal too.

Neither Bodin nor Lathrope reacted quickly enough to the throw in that led to the cross for the first goal either.

Despite the disappointing nature of Saturday's performance, it may well be the events of the next few days that will shape the rest of our season rather than a one off defeat such as we witnessed against York. We can only hope that the news on Downes and Pearce is as positive as it can be as without doubt they are two of our better players and hugely important for our success (or otherwise) this season. Likewise we shouldn't underestimate the importance of getting Harding back ASAP as his performances have shown gradual improvement in recent games in my opinion. Does anyone know how far away Michael Poke is from a return as it's all gone rather quiet on that front and yet it's clear (from the interview given by AK on RD) that Alan Knill still very much regards Poke as his first choice keeper.

Knill has been hugely unlucky to lose not only Downes and Pearce, his first choice centre halves, but we shouldn't forget that he has also lost young McKenzie to his problems with diabetes too. For any L2 manager to lose three centre halves, let alone at a club as small as ours, it is always likely to have a massive impact. We should also not forget that we did have young Jack Deaman on trial for the best part of a couple of months and it was only a combination of bad luck (he suffered an injury in pre season), indifferent performances in a couple of reserve games and a lack of money that meant he wasn't kept on ... it is surely obvious to anyone that Knill would not choose to go into a new season with such a lack of cover in such an important position. In my opinion, it was a huge shame that we couldn't somehow find the money to sign Shaun Cooper as someone like him could have proved invaluable to a small club like ours with a small budget and by necessity a small squad, with his ability to cover three or four positions in the squad. Such versatility would have been great for a team like ours.

With a fully fit squad, and one or two quality additions through the loan market, I still think we have enough to steer ourselves to safety ... but clearly, if we get bad news on the injury front this week, we could well be in for a season long struggle.

Given the injury situation and the fact that we are only ten games into a new season, I think it is far too early to call for a change of Manager. Not only that but, as others have pointed out, we are simply not in a position (financially) to go chopping and changing our Manager every time we hit a sticky patch. I also think that we shouldn't forget that we should perhaps only truly judge Alan Knill on his ability to create a winning squad at this level after next summer as he will then, and only then, be truly able to say that this is HIS squad. Let's not forget that he "inherited" quite a large number of the current squad from his predecessor and it will be interesting to see how many from the likes of Poke, McKenzie, Nicholson, Lathrope, Mansell, Craig, Thompson, Bodin, Sullivan and Hutchings will be retained in the summer ... all of these players were already contracted when Knill was appointed. I suspect quite a few of that lot won't be with us next season, in all honesty.

Worrying times, for sure, but we all need to stick together and try and get behind both the Manager and the team.