Is Hargreaves fit for purpose?

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 13 Feb 2015, 18:20

The reason some managers are sacked after such short times in the job is the impatience of some club owners or chairmen who don't understand football and expect instant miracles without providing the manager with any kind of back-up. For example, at Man U. following the retirements of Alex Ferguson and (years before) Matt Busby, their successors (David Moyes and Frank O'Farrell), both proven successful managers at other clubs, were not given sufficient time in the job by the club. It does take time, unless a manager is very lucky. And of course, the fans too are just as impatient..

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 13 Feb 2015, 18:41

I blame the introduction of women into football.................

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 13 Feb 2015, 19:00

Southampton Gull wrote:Buckle an eye for a young player? I think you'll find it was John Milton who had that particular skill
Buckle is arrogant to the extreme and that will ultimately always be his downfall.

If it was John Milton who got these young players where is he now, is he with a top club as he should be. Hargreaves could do with him. Buckle as manager will take the credit for employing John Milton who ever he is.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 13 Feb 2015, 19:41

AustrianAndyGull wrote: Are Mourinho, Fergie and Wenger good managers though?

They can manage with money but what would they achieve say as boss of Tranmere Rovers for example? In my opinion there are three types of manager. The first can manage pressure and success at the very top but have the luxury of the best players and money. Give them the task of steering Telford to safety and you can forget it. The second can only manage teams with limited resources and do it to varying degrees of success. Give them money and invariably they blow it and get the boot.

The third type of manager is Alan Knill.

Buckle certainly knew what he wanted and how to get it and backed up with a few quid too. To be honest, i know the bloke is a complete cretin but it is a little bit odd how he has managed to fail so badly at every other club he has been at since leaving Torquay. Obviously it's funny but strange at the same time.

Hargreaves has had a massively sharp learning curve but no win in the league since December the 9th and have Torquay REALLY got a squad just 4 points better than Braintree? (Braintree also have 2 games in hand).

The FA Trophy is a real bonus but in all honesty, as indicated by many Wrexham fans - unless you are a Dover or an Alfreton, you shouldn't really be judging the season as a success if the play offs aren't reached. I think the club should be a lot closer to the play offs as it stands but i always said given the upheaval, if the club just miss out then that's reasonably all one could have expected at the start of the season.

It will be next season when CH will rightly be 100% held to account. If he is still in charge that is.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 13 Feb 2015, 20:01

Southampton Gull wrote:I blame the introduction of women into football.................

Post by **Dave** » 13 Feb 2015, 20:05

Gullscorer wrote:

Gullscorer to champion women football managers..

Post by **SuperNickyWroe** » 13 Feb 2015, 20:16

Gullscorer wrote:The reason some managers are sacked after such short times in the job is the impatience of some club owners or chairmen who don't understand football and expect instant miracles without providing the manager with any kind of back-up. For example, at Man U. following the retirements of Alex Ferguson and (years before) Matt Busby, their successors (David Moyes and Frank O'Farrell), both proven successful managers at other clubs, were not given sufficient time in the job by the club. It does take time, unless a manager is very lucky. And of course, the fans too are just as impatient..

Sorry you are incorrect about Utd....
Wilf McGuiness succeeded Sir Matt - not O'Farrell.... :devil:

Post by **Dave** » 13 Feb 2015, 20:19

Is Mourinho a good manager, I would say he is, when you've won 7 League titles in 4 different countries, won both F.A and League cups in every country you've managed, won the Champions League with 2 different clubs and the UEFA cup, really don't think money comes into it, of course top managers would find it hard to win things with out money, it's all relative, would Mourinho, Fergie or Wenger kept TUFC in the football league, I would say yes, with that squad they would have done.

Can Chris Hargreaves be held 100 % accountable to this season should it end in failure, as it now seems likely, yes. 8 out of the 13 players used last Saturday were signed by CH, if you include the fact CH promoted Ives to the first team squad that makes 9, this is CH's team, it can't be argued any other way.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 13 Feb 2015, 22:02

I think it's still too soon to judge whether or not CH is going to prove to be a good manager. The time to judge is after, say, 15 matches next season. My worries this season is that several players who started the season playing well are not now performing and it may be my imagination, but there doesn't seem to be the same team spirit as there was earlier in the season. Why? In my view, we are lacking an experienced head in the team. I wonder if it is a luxury for a club in our situation to have a non-playing coach and whether it would be better to have an experienced player-coach? Any thoughts? Mind you, finding a suitable player-coach is another question !!

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 13 Feb 2015, 23:02

SuperNickyWroe wrote: Sorry you are incorrect about Utd....
Wilf McGuiness succeeded Sir Matt - not O'Farrell.... :devil:

No, I'm right. After Busby first left, his managerial duties went to club trainer Wilf McGuinness, but McGuinness struggled in his new post, and Busby was convinced to return for the second half of the 1970â€“71 season. However, he retired from football permanently the following summer, and was then succeeded by Frank O'Farrell.

Post by **SuperNickyWroe** » 13 Feb 2015, 23:07

Gullscorer wrote: No, I'm right. After Busby first left, his managerial duties went to club trainer Wilf McGuinness, but McGuinness struggled in his new post, and Busby was convinced to return for the second half of the 1970â€“71 season. However, he retired from football permanently the following summer, and was then succeeded by Frank O'Farrell.

Nah you're wrong....
Wilf was manager from June 69-December 70...
Without question.
Check your facts.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 13 Feb 2015, 23:10

forevertufc wrote: Gullscorer to champion women football managers..

That's no problem, provided they're not feminists! :~D
Fortunately though, less than 20% of women identify in any way with feminism. Margaret Thatcher described feminism as 'poison'..

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 13 Feb 2015, 23:13

SNW, I'm right. Busby returned as manager for the second half of the 70/71 season, and was succeeded by Frank O'Farrell the following summer.
I suppose it could be said that we're both right, in that he was succeeded first by Wilf McG, and then finally by Frank O'F.
But I'm more right than you are..!! :~D :na:

Post by **SuperNickyWroe** » 13 Feb 2015, 23:28

Gullscorer wrote:SNW, I'm right. Busby returned as manager for the second half of the 70/71 season, and was succeeded by Frank O'Farrell the following summer.
I suppose it could be said that we're both right, in that he was succeeded first by Wilf McG, and then finally by Frank O'F.
But I'm more right than you are..!! :~D :na:

Don't talk wet.

Post by **Gulliball** » 14 Feb 2015, 02:54

Slightly off-topic, but as it's been mentioned in this thread and is a slight bugbear for me - I really don't understand why people question if managers like Mourinho, Ferguson or Wenger are really great managers. They are most famous for working at big clubs, but they all worked their way up the ladder to get there, and deliver results to stay there.

Mourinho was never a footballer, so for him to even break into management was an incredible achievement given how clubs appoint their managers. He went from being a translator at Barcelona to coaching to management, and from a small Portuguese team to Porto to Chelsea. Since then he's won the league wherever he's been.

Wenger had been around France and Japan before reaching Arsenal. He is more responsible than anyone else for turning footballers into athletes, and has delivered results year on year even when his budget shrank and everyone else's exploded.

Ferguson was an average player who worked his way up from managing part-time East Stirling to leading Aberdeen to success in Europe (a phenomenal achievement) and then built Man Utd up from a mid table side in England to the biggest side in the world.

Could they manage at Torquay? Yes, they could. But they're managing much higher up because they've already been there and done it and are in demand much higher.

For Hargreaves, I think the next 18 months will define him. He didn't keep the club up, which was possible given how long he was in charge, but no-one is going to blame him for too much given what he inherited. He's then built a pretty good, but young and inconsistent, squad with little budget to work in.

If we win the FA Trophy and he has us in the top 5 next year then that will be a job well done in my opinion. At the moment we could finish anywhere between 3rd and 16th, and he needs to address our form in the league, with the FA Trophy as a real chance to get some extra glory.

Next season, with the high earners gone and another summer to put his mark on the team, is when he will really be judged. His contract is up at the end of next season too, so he is fighting for his future in management.

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