Fleetwood Town v Torquay United - 7/9/13

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hector
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Post by hector »

AustrianAndyGull wrote:

You are right, Rice let the third one in yesterday and perhaps was at fault for Northampton's goal. He may even have made a costly error last week which would have meant a 1-0 home defeat to Hartlepool. I don't dispute that although I do dispute the fact that we are relegated already. That is nonsense IMO. Maybe we should be looking a bit further up the field if we are looking for answers, if we scored goals then Rice making ricks here and there wouldn't be too much of an issue but just because Ricey is under severe pressure each week (just like Poke last season) then he has a sh*t load to deal with all game. A mistake here and there is perfectly acceptable IMO considering how many attempts at goal he keeps out. If we started playing the pressing, high tempo attacking football which i thought we'd signed up to when Knill came in then all would be well. We might have still lost against Fleetwood because they are a bloody decent side but it might have been 3-2 and we could take a million positives from the game.

We lost 4-1 and were abject so let's not have a go at the blokes (plus Downes so that is two! :) ) that did their jobs properly and performed for the shirt yesterday. Ricey is one of them.
We have a few really good, solid players at the club and a few that are looking past it or aren't what we thought they were. If these niggles get sorted by Knill then we have the basis of a really good squad IMO. It is not major surgery we need just a few ideas, a few players to show a better attitude and a few players to shape up or ship out.
You have essentially said that Rice has made goal-costing errors for three games running. How can a goaly be doing their job properly with that sort of calamitous element to their game?

Rice is a liability. Making superb saves throughout a game means nothing if the keeper still gifts the opposition goals. The odd ricket every few games is perhaps forgivable for a keeper but not almost every game.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Matt85 wrote:I was at the game yesterday sat within earshot of Alan Knill, I have had a quick read through the posts and will apologise in advance if I say anything has already been said.

One the first things that struck me was the comparison in the size and physicality of both teams, now, I know that down the years we've never been known to be a big side physically, but yesterday we were pressed and muscled off the ball across the whole park, we looked like a very small team that was easily intimidated and I think we gave Fleetwood way too much respect. Having read that Mozika is on his way, I'm anticipating that he will add some of the power and presence we are so desperately in need of.

From the back Fleetwood were solid throughout, through middle of the park and out-wide. We looked way out of our depth. They imposed a high tempo from the word go and it only took a matter of seconds before it came clear that we were going to be in for a long afternoon. Nothing was getting past their centre half who put out a very Branston 'esq performance, they were stronger, faster, more confident and essentially more up up for it, which will bring me on to my next point.

When Knill came in there were many who jumped on the AK bandwagon, and although I was more reluctant, I didn't jump on his back straightaway. I decided to hold back on my opinion. I had not seen or heard any Alan Knill interviews before he came to Torquay United, now I know that every manager has their own style and individual way of doing things but my initial reaction was that there's something missing there. I may be being unjust but I was left feeling less than convinced that he had enough about him to galvinise a team that was so down and out at the time. People will be quick to say he kept us up, but an interesting point that I did read earlier is that we finished closer to the drop zone at the end of the season on points than when Knill arrived.

Had that been a Torquay United side of a 2 or 3 years ago I feel we would have easily competed yesterday. We lacked grit, determination, bottle and confidence, just some of those ingredients you need to grind out those 1 nil wins! ;-)

My point is I'm still not convinced Knill has enough fire in the belly to carry us through to where we want to be. I'm not going to sit and slate him though, not yet, the players also need to take responsibility. Knill shouted more than once from the touchline yesterday "block the cross", to which a moment later an unblocked cross led to our third goal. In fact I don't think we manged to block one cross yesterday???

However, by in large it wasn't the most abismal Torquay United performance I have ever witnessed, that came at Spotland last season, bar a few from our relegation season. We do have potential, which again is something that is frustrating me at the moment, it's like a cream tea without jam!, also the phrase 'time to gel', Wimbledon immediately springs to mind.

It's also frustrating to see Craig and Lathrope being wasted on the sideline. Manse and Harding I feel both have poor distribution and Craig, IMO, is one of the best distributors of the ball we have, Thompson, whose perfect cross led to our equaliser on the opening day, again just left on the sidelines, all players I feel could have made a difference yesterday in one way or another. Very annoying.

To be fair to lads though I have read a few comments from Fleetwood fans saying that that was one of the best home displays they have seen in a long while, there was a mention that a performance like that hadn't been seen at home since the days they were dominating in the BSP. They were also quick to praise Ricey.

I will be at Spotland next week bring it on. My brother in law is a Dale fan :} who was at the derby game yesterday and said that both Bury and Rochdale were poor and the overall quality of the game wasn't great.

With that in mind bring it on!!! :keepie:

Good post Matt and that was my worst ever TUFC performance i'd seen last season at Rochdale. It was awful wasn't it, there was just a palpable sense of resignation within the crowd once there goal went in that there was nothing else to come. It was actually a weird feeling.

Anyway, tell your brother in law to either not read the match day thread or to ignore it completely if he does! :lol:
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Post by SuperNickyWroe »

hector wrote: You have essentially said that Rice has made goal-costing errors for three games running. How can a goaly be doing their job properly with that sort of calamitous element to their game?

Rice is a liability. Making superb saves throughout a game means nothing if the keeper still gifts the opposition goals. The odd ricket every few games is perhaps forgivable for a keeper but not almost every game.

obviously, its apparent you know nothing about goalkeeping, and are, of course, talking out of your ar*e.
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Post by hector »

If a keeper makes goal costing in errors in most games (3 running represents half our games so far) then essentially you are a goal down before you start. We have the 3rd worst defensive record in the division. How many are errors? How many are down to the jitters having a dodgy keeper presents?

Rice in goal, goalkeeping errors and 10 goals conceded in 6 games. The bloke will have backache soon.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Missed chances that should really be put away by strikers can soon add up too which also cost us goals. It's not just at one end where we can lose out to errors.
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Post by SuperNickyWroe »

hector wrote:If a keeper makes goal costing in errors in most games (3 running represents half our games so far) then essentially you are a goal down before you start. We have the 3rd worst defensive record in the division. How many are errors? How many are down to the jitters having a dodgy keeper presents?

Rice in goal, goalkeeping errors and 10 goals conceded in 6 games. The bloke will have backache soon.
every goalkeeper makes "errors" as you put it.

it also may have escaped your attention, but ricey has been MOTM in a few games,and if he had not made some fine saves (yesterday for example) we wouldnt have as many points as we actually have now.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Jesus Chris you're getting a bit defensive over Ricey aren't you mate? Are you bumming him by any chance? :rofl: :na:
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Post by SuperNickyWroe »

AustrianAndyGull wrote:Jesus Chris you're getting a bit defensive over Ricey aren't you mate? Are you bumming him by any chance? :rofl: :na:
sick of him getting stick mate. :@

if all the players applied themselves like he did we would be higher in the league thats for sure.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Can't disagree with that.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Just looked at 'the other forum' and a photo of us away fans in the terrace. There looks well less than 100. Does anyone know how many of us were there?
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Post by chunkygull »

the humorous bits werent lost on me by the way andy, very good -
I saw something that filled me with hope upon leaving Fleetwood (and it wasn't just that I WAS leaving Fleetwood ) but it was something I've never seen before. I saw a rainbow but with another rainbow above it. Two rainbows! I half expected Bungle, George and Zippy to magically appear in the vivid bands of this meteorological wonder. I didn't though and nearly started to cry, I loved them but not as much as Mooncat. Mooncat was sh*t hot AND green! I saw hope that next week at Rochdale we will play like we did at Northampton. Will the real Torquay United please stand up.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Drysdale was bent but his lino bloody well was! As camp as a field full of teepees!!

This is a crucial point and no, i'm not Lenny Henry.
i got the lenny henry character, delbert wilkins reference. :) i too used to love mooncat, i remember one episode where he had a telephone and the number on it was prominently showing. well, thousands of dip$hit kids must have used mummys phone without permission because a few hours later an irritated tv announcer told all the kids off and told them to stop dialling the number to try and call mooncat. :no:

oh wait a minute, sorry, :Oops: this is a football thread, well i cant really comment on yesterdays match because i wasnt actually there,i only listened to it on the radio. unless you were there what can you say. :whistle:

it did sound bad though, and to be fair doubts are creeping in. i dont understand why a manager doesnt use his full resources and squad. would it really make such a difference if certain players were dropped and made way for others in the squad, unless the replacements really screw up i think not. would craig, yeoman or thompson be that much worse than what we are playing now? would lathrope and craig be worse than mansell,harding?

i appreciate where the manager has said to try and keep the same team for 9-10 games to see what happens, but it doesnt really look like they are suddenly going to click or "gel" and go on a 10 match win streak or something does it. an unwillingness to change things up when they are not working is a sign of ego and poor management. the best managers change things after half a game if they arent working not 9 or 10.

its not all knills fault though, clearly a few players are not up to it and not putting enough effort in. i saw this v hartlepool, not enough players seem up for it and there wasnt anything like any fight or passion that found its way in at the end of last season.

i wonder when the club will be holding the next fans forum because there are plenty of questions.
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Post by hector »

SuperNickyWroe wrote:
every goalkeeper makes "errors" as you put it.

it also may have escaped your attention, but ricey has been MOTM in a few games,and if he had not made some fine saves (yesterday for example) we wouldnt have as many points as we actually have now.
Not every keeper makes goal costing errors in every game. I don't remember many occasions (if any) when Poke flapped or made mistakes that cost us goals...certainly not this frequently.
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Post by FavGull »

After a weekend of disappointment and deliberation, what can someone who wasn't there add to the views of those who were. Not a great deal.

What I will say, taking my default optimistic outlook which is largely still intact, is that perhaps our new team needed this pill to swallow, and it is part of the learning process, which will enable us to come out the other side stronger.

The left back situation is still puzzling. Can only assume a change will be made after 10-12 games based on what we have seen so far.

The midfield. Things may well change this week, but remember that 3/4 of our current central options were inherited by Knill (albeit the 1/4 added not looking too great). Will be very interesting to see how any changes affect the team dynamic.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

hector wrote: You have essentially said that Rice has made goal-costing errors for three games running. How can a goaly be doing their job properly with that sort of calamitous element to their game?

Rice is a liability. Making superb saves throughout a game means nothing if the keeper still gifts the opposition goals. The odd ricket every few games is perhaps forgivable for a keeper but not almost every game.


I completely see where you're coming from with this Hector and normally i'd be with you on it, yes Rice is a professional goalie and yes he makes frequent errors which is not ideal but at this moment in time I believe there are major problems elsewhere on the pitch which need to be addressed first and when we get everything purring and functioning properly (if ever) then we can begin to look at Rice and act accordingly. If we were defending stoutly and nicked a 1-0 lead at Chesterfield say and Rice made another error which cost a goal and it ended 1-1 and this was a pattern then perhaps we should be concerned but at the moment pretty much 80% of the side is underperforming big time and him making goal costing errors really doesn't matter to me so long as he keeps out the usual bombardment from the opposition. Our manager and outfield need to take some responsibility for this early season predicament and it is in their direction we should be looking.
I think Ricey is the LEAST of our problems at the minute.
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Post by PlainmoorRoar »

It's a weird one, are the saves rice is making catergorised as very good just because its Rice making them?

Will be interesting to see how good Poke is looking on Tuesdays friendly game!
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