Newport v Torquay United. 28/09/2013

[ferrarilover]

It's the BBC, can you imagine the rigmarole of hiring a new employee? Fourteen million health and safety forms, endless meetings to decide whether the appointment in in accordance with the Code, a £27,000,000 independent panel to spend two years scruutinising the appointment before being scrapped due to IT problems, dozens of Daily Mail articles criticising Aunty for being pre-immigration and covering up the death of Diana for the CIA conspiracy it so obviously was and a thousand other things. Far easier just to get Steve in.

Matt.

[TeenageGull]

Could someone tell me if ball doesn't carry on that he Newport game was his last game ?

[tomogull]

So bruice, is benyon the man who is going to save the day for us, score every game and we wont have any troubles. Is niall thompson who has hardly ever played this season really going to affect us if he goes out on loan even with injuries? Wow, before you judge players go to a game please, oh wait you don't support torquay united

Come on - get real. Neither Brucie nor anyone else has suggested Benyon would score in every game !! It is the opinion of some of us that if he had been given the game time that both Hawley and Ball have been given, he would have scored as many as the three the two have 'amassed' between them (it might say four in the stats, but the second goal credited to Ball against Cheltenham was a stone-wall own goal). Similarly, it is the opinion of some of us that had Thompson been given the same amount of match time as Cameron, he would have had a greater impact than Cameron. Remember - it was Thompson's excellent cross when he came on as substitute against Wimbeldon for Downes to score that saved us a home defeat on the first day of the season.

Thanks supergulls and ferrarimatt re info about Jack Deaman. If Kirtys Mackenzie is unable to play at present, we have no central defender cover so Knill obviously has to bring in an experienced loan signing from somewhere.

[tomogull]

Absolutely nothing to do with this thread but its not worth starting a new thread. Here's the good news for the weekend !!! Did anyone else notice that Harrogate have been knocked out of the FA Cup. Yesssssss !!! At least we won't have to suffer that embarrassment this season. Well ..... not at the hands of Harrogate, anyway.

[ferrarilover]

Just seen the FLS highlights. What game were they watching? What they've done is show every single shot that Newport had in the match (all three) and made out as if they were all over us. If you can't be bothered to send anyone to the match, at least have a look around the internet to get an idea of what might have happened. I wouldn't mind, but it's absolutely everywhere that we should have won.

Matt.

[Gullscorer]

I've been reading through all the stuff about Torquay's performance at Newport, by all accounts a very good one, with some even saying the Gulls gave the better team performance. However if the object of the game is to score goals, with the team scoring the most goals being the winner, then it must be obvious that the team which wins the game is the better team. It's the scoring of the goals which decides who is the better team. Unless, of course, some outside factor, such as a completely biased or incompetent referee, affects the result. There was no such outside factor at the Newport match; the referee had a decent enough game.

The Gulls team may have played well enough to show promise for the future, but because they scored fewer goals, and so failed to win, they were not the better team on the day, and therefore should not have won..

After all, if a mountaineer achieves the goal of climbing to the summit of a difficult mountain twice in two attempts, while another achieves this goal once after numerous attempts, who is the better mountaineer?

Nevertheless, the Gulls' performance makes me optimistic that we will avoid relegation this season. Hell, there's even a possibility that things will start to go amazingly well and we will finish mid-table. If that happens, Alan Knill will have had a successful season as manager. And if we actually win through to the play-offs or higher, he would deservedly achieve the status of a heroic demi-god..

[royalgull]

Funny ol game sometimes, or more to the point frustrating. Worried about us as soon as the news of Downes injury broke and ultimately it was probably his absence that was the difference in the game. I'd question Knill though, Azeez was excellent don't get me wrong but Aaron did his knee in on Thursday and it's potentially serious, how can a) we only have 2 senior central defenders in the squad in the first place? and b) why wasn't there a loan being sorted the second Aaron got injured? We had FOUR strikers on the bench on Saturday, a sign of our attacking intent? Or just complete squad imbalance that we couldn't field a natural back 4? i'll let you all decide.

Seeing some people putting Cruise in their man of the match 5 is the ultimate in sympathy vote, positionally poor, unbelievably slow and again unnatural in the air, just not a centre half and it showed time and time again, we looked a soft touch and had Pearce not been on his game we'd have been in serious trouble. It wasn't all Cruise' fault, it's not really his fault in the 1st place that he was playing in that position but when you've got a makeshift back 4 the last thing you want to do is give away silly free kicks. Well we gave one away for the first goal, Harding under no pressure panicked as if he was under pressure, gave it away then tripped their bloke up. Free kick whipped in, free header back post thanks very much. The frustrating bit was this was basically the first time Newport crossed our half in the 1st half up to that point. We'd played alright, not created a massive amount but Chapell was getting some joy down the right hand side, Lathrope was having an excellent game in the middle and we were on top, then suckerpunch.

Almost immediately it was 2, long ball down the right, Tonge caught out a little bit (although he was mostly decent) Early ball in, again our marking and tracking of the run was appalling and the lad had a free shot 5 yards out, 2-0.

At half time you're thinking well I can understand the 4-5-1 today with the makeshift defense and getting them some protection, we've played alright with the ball without being outstanding and at worst deserve to be level but we're not so change it.We start off 4-5-1 and we looked a rabble second half early doors. Then the change is made, Azeez to come on, ok fair enough lets have a look....he takes Chapell off. Our one decent player from an attacking sense so far is coming off absolutely unbelievable. Azeez though almost made the difference and I'd have loved to see Chapell working down the left with Azeez from the right I am certain on that evidence they couldn't have handled them. Azeez was superb, fast but with skill, strong and capable with the confidence to hold challenges off beat players and want to get in the box and he thoroughly deserved his superbly taken goal to get us back in the game.

Newport were hanging on then, we had a couple of efforts to get back level, Hawley replaced Ball and then finall the change was made to 4-4-2 for the last 7 or 8 minutes although again the personell choice was just weird. Tonge came off, Benyon went on, Mansell to RB and that move enabled the last chance you saw on the FLS, Mansell who'd been poor all game was caught the wrong side of the winger who beat him with ease and Rice came to the rescue. Why not just take one of Mansell or Harding off Knill and keep things simple and obvious? That's not your style though is it!?

Overall it was a frustrating afternoon, one which I felt we looked the better football side on show but one that ultiamtely we got nothing out of because of our complete lack of depth in the defensive positions. Not one for usually blaming managers but to not have a suitable cover option is unforgivable and it was that which cost us a game we should and probably would have won with it.

Positives - Lathrope was excellent for me, his passing is a million times better overall than both Mansell and Harding. He is calm and composed and strong in the tackle and did everything asked of him. I think he's got more in the locker than being just a stopper and I would be strongly encouraging him to try and do a bit more in games.

Azeez looks a real prospect and I would be amazed if he didn't start the next match, he was truly excellent when he came on.

Pearce -best game I've seen him have. think he knew his responsibility was even greater with his senior partner missing and he had a solid game.

Best game i've seen Tonge have and I couldn't understand why he went off, I didn't and still don't understand how playing Mansell at Right back instead of him was going to benefit us in any way shape or form, Chapell too looked dangerous until he was ridiculously replaced.

PS. Newport is an absolute dive of a place and I hated the ground in all honesty. A mission to walk round, no decent signage and a very confusing lay out, not their fault as a club they've done the best they can do but not a favourite, the only good thing is it's 10mins walk from the station and the way out of there.

[gullintwoplaces]

A really helpful summary of the game from somebody who actually went to it. Far better to read this than the inane meaningless comments from the usual suspects who don't go to games but prefer to post negative comments from their armchairs as soon as the final whistle goes. Thank you!

[AustrianAndyGull]

I've been reading through all the stuff about Torquay's performance at Newport, by all accounts a very good one, with some even saying the Gulls gave the better team performance. However if the object of the game is to score goals, with the team scoring the most goals being the winner, then it must be obvious that the team which wins the game is the better team. It's the scoring of the goals which decides who is the better team. Unless, of course, some outside factor, such as a completely biased or incompetent referee, affects the result. There was no such outside factor at the Newport match; the referee had a decent enough game.

The Gulls team may have played well enough to show promise for the future, but because they scored fewer goals, and so failed to win, they were not the better team on the day, and therefore should not have won..

After all, if a mountaineer achieves the goal of climbing to the summit of a difficult mountain twice in two attempts, while another achieves this goal once after numerous attempts, who is the better mountaineer?

Nevertheless, the Gulls' performance makes me optimistic that we will avoid relegation this season. Hell, there's even a possibility that things will start to go amazingly well and we will finish mid-table. If that happens, Alan Knill will have had a successful season as manager. And if we actually win through to the play-offs or higher, he would deservedly achieve the status of a heroic demi-god..

I totally get where you are coming from with this GS and yes you are right when you say that they scored 2 and we scored 1 so regardless of how we played we still ended up with 0 points and that is all that matters. However my personal view is that long term it is the performances that are most important to me and not the results. That may sound crazy as we are in a results business but if we adopt a way of playing which is good to watch generally and the players know what is expected of them game in game out without chopping and changing all the time ( enforced on Saturday but at other times because of Knill not having any cover in areas or awful cover in some areas when he has ) then this will get some sort of consistency going and we will see gradual improvements and climb up the table. We will play well and lose and we will play poorly and win this season but i'm damn sure if I was a player and we had battered a team but lost i'd be more inclined to shrug it off and go again next time than if we had played ala Fleetwood and lost. It becomes so much harder to pick yourself up.

What I am trying to say is that if we encourage a certain way of playing that is high tempo and pressing then the 11 will soon play this way by default and any defeat will be easier to bounce back from because everyone will be playing well and with confidence by and large and they know that a defeat will be just an unfortunate setback and they will have the confidence to get a result the next week. As it is now we are all over the shop, apparently we played well v Newport and Rochdale and lost and not so good against Cheltenham and won which kind of devalues my point but if we get the Newport performance and work on it then over time it will evolve and improve and we could be a team to fear in this league. Knill doesn't really know what he is trying to achieve IMO and he is just taking things a game at a time with no thoughts to long term progress and hoping to get through them by picking up a point here and there by winging it. There appears to be no pattern or plan but maybe that is just Torquay. I'm not saying we should be like Man City every week but that Knill should have a desired tactic that he hones and enhances over time. Everything is a disjointed quick fix at the minute and it will lead to more frustration and confusion amongst some fans.

Just take Arsenal as an example, they go out to win every game they play by attacking. They don't win every game, they may often get picked off on the counter or whatever but they know what to do from the kick off and hey try and do it. They may struggle against some teams who stick 11 men behind the ball but they play the same way anyway as the players are familiar and comfortable with it. Obviously at our level we can't be like Arsenal but if we have the same positive attitude week in week out regardless then we will play well and also accumulate points and breed confidence in the club.

So given the choice of playing like Ling and finishing in a play off spot or playing like Barcelona and finishing mid table then i'd take the latter everytime.

[tomogull]

Yes - good report Royal - thanks. From those who were at the game, there are NINE players listed on the MOTM thread. The three not included are Ball, Mansell and Harding. That must tell us something. As for Mansell, I think he has still got much to offer. I really do think his game is being affected by having to play alongside an incredibly weak midfield partner.

[royalgull]

Harding wasn't that bad although he was bloody stupid giving the fre kick away which led to the 1st goal. Thought he had a better second half and started to dictate the game a bit better. To me he looks like someone who just doesn't believe in himself enough, sounds silly but he's got the tools to be effective and second half he was spraying the ball around and getting involved he looked half decent. the moment someone goes near him he s*its himself and panics. completely the opposite to someone like Lathrope.

Mansell wasn't great, Ball it was difficult for him. He was totally isolated at times and was feeding off hopeful punts forward leaving him 1 v 4 sometimes 5. Of our strikers Benyon is probably best suited to that lone striker role just because he's busy and got a turn of pace, Ball struggled a bit but wasn't terrible.

thought our worst players were Manse, Cruise, probably Harding and probably Bodin but again Billy wasn't totally awful did some good things especially second half.

also one more thing, who has told Mansell that he should be on set pieces this season? Couldn't believe what i was seeing.

[Richinns]

Harding wasn't that bad although he was bloody stupid giving the fre kick away which led to the 1st goal. Thought he had a better second half and started to dictate the game a bit better. To me he looks like someone who just doesn't believe in himself enough, sounds silly but he's got the tools to be effective and second half he was spraying the ball around and getting involved he looked half decent. the moment someone goes near him he s*its himself and panics. completely the opposite to someone like Lathrope.

Mansell wasn't great, Ball it was difficult for him. He was totally isolated at times and was feeding off hopeful punts forward leaving him 1 v 4 sometimes 5. Of our strikers Benyon is probably best suited to that lone striker role just because he's busy and got a turn of pace, Ball struggled a bit but wasn't terrible.

thought our worst players were Manse, Cruise, probably Harding and probably Bodin but again Billy wasn't totally awful did some good things especially second half.

also one more thing, who has told Mansell that he should be on set pieces this season? Couldn't believe what i was seeing.

Especially considering Harding is supposed to be a dead ball specialist and in fact this is what the Town fans where saying was his only real attribute!

[supergulls]

Funny ol game sometimes, or more to the point frustrating. Worried about us as soon as the news of Downes injury broke and ultimately it was probably his absence that was the difference in the game. I'd question Knill though, Azeez was excellent don't get me wrong but Aaron did his knee in on Thursday and it's potentially serious, how can a) we only have 2 senior central defenders in the squad in the first place? and b) why wasn't there a loan being sorted the second Aaron got injured? We had FOUR strikers on the bench on Saturday, a sign of our attacking intent? Or just complete squad imbalance that we couldn't field a natural back 4? i'll let you all decide

Downes injured his knee thurs at around midday to have a player down here and have all the paperwork signed for a loan would have been impossible as all the paperwork has to be signed and registered no later than midday on Friday to be eligible to play on Saturday. I also agree there is a imbalance in the squad but we do have four first team center backs but knill chooses to go totally lop sided and unbalanced than play the younger players.

[royalgull]

Especially considering Harding is supposed to be a dead ball specialist and in fact this is what the Town fans where saying was his only real attribute!

Mansell's delivery was worse than royal mail, either straight at Pidgeley (who is pants) or into the first man. Was dire, love Manse to bits but crossing/set pieces has never been his strength!

[royalgull]

Downes injured his knee thurs at around midday to have a player down here and have all the paperwork signed for a loan would have been impossible as all the paperwork has to be signed and registered no later than midday on Friday to be eligible to play on Saturday. I also agree there is a imbalance in the squad but we do have four first team center backs but knill chooses to go totally lop sided and unbalanced than play the younger players.

To have 2 senior centre backs in the first place is dicing with death, accept your point about it perhaps being too late to get a loan but you have to have some cover as injury/suspensions will happent o defender over the course of the season. Dont' want it to sound like i'm picking on Cruise because he did his best in there on Saturday wasn't utterly appalling but was a left back playing centre back and it completely showed.