Ellis

[Dave]

Talking of his bad games lets not forget Oxford home last season, however i said in an above reply and i meant it, the O/P suggest's that Ellis was looking confident and sharp saturday, that really is a good thing for the player, and the club as it does not have a huge budget.

A fully fit confident Mark Ellis is a real asset, every one deserve's another chance, hopefully we will see play saturday.

[tufcbrett]

I still think we all forget were a league 2 side. Players make mistakes at all levels, Mark is a good centre back and yes he may not always be perfect but then nor is anyone else in our sqaud.

Its a team game and if someone makes a mistake then you hope someone will help you out. If marks plays i would be confident that he will do his best, if he doesnt have a good game then so be it, thats football.

We could sit here and say about each players good and bad games but i really dont see where this is leading?

[yellow]

Agree with tufcbrett.

It does however seem that some players are cut more slack than others for their poor performances.

Perhaps it is harder for a defender to hide, since the consequences of a poor performance are more apparent than they are say for a gifted young midfielder whose misplaced paces may have lead to the very pressure that the defender is under.

It is perhaps the Ellis conundrum that he is good against certain types of attacks and less so against others. It seems to me that he shines when the aerial route is being adopted by the opposition, and is perhaps more susceptible to the ‘footballing’ teams that keep it on the deck.

[kbgull]

Is it me or can anybody else see that Brain Saah (Martin Lings Blue eyed boy) will not be dropped this season, despite poor performances?!

If this was Mark, then like last year with Buckle (so called rested him) Martin Ling will be dropping him!

I no that Mark is not the finished article by a long way and is known for the odd lapse of concetration and slip, but who isnt!

Im sure that if Mark was given a extended spell in the side then he will produce the goods as a decent centre back that we know he can be. If i remember that last season it was two off performances back to back after christmas that cost him his place, but look back to the season before and he was a major part of the defence that kept the clean sheet record including Nicholson and Robertson and Mansell? Which included a impressive game against the league leaders (Notts County) and tough battling striker in the name of Lee Hughes!

Personally i would like to see him paired with Robertson, who has imporved massivley at centre back! Robbo is also known for shirt pulling which is going to cost us soon! But he now looks comanding at the back unlike Brian Saah, attacking the ball and being a tough defender!

Hopefully Martin Ling will see there is a talent there, and the defencesive problems will be solved soon!

[Southampton Gull]

Mike, a few of us have hijacked the Cheltenham thread discussing Ellis, you might want to read it because a few are with you, not me though, I hasten to add

[royalgull]

There's not a lot between them, and while Saah has rightly in my opinion taken a little bit of stick on here for poor performance, Ellis wasn't really any better. It was he that played a part in both goals against.

There are definite questions about us defensively, we need Leadbitter back so as we can judge how decent he can be at this level. If he's a work in progress signing then in my opinion we are short in quality at the back. Robertson has to play centre half long term but with Oastler being equally as unconvincing at right back as Saah has been at CB he might be forced into playing right back in the short term - not ideal.

Saah v Ellis seriously i don't think it'll make too much difference, much of a muchness, I don't want to see them together too often I can safely say that. Hoping Leadbitter will be a decent player then we'll look a lot more balanced at the back. The other option is and I'd be really loathed to do it is to move Mansell to right back, from what i've seen and i know he hates it, he's the best current option there.

[yellow]

Not sure what your point is royal.

Ellis has played in one competitive match (last Saturday), and in that he was the MOTM. (I don’t count the ‘undercoaters’ cup’, which with its lack of cachet and the fielding of weakened teams is not much more than a friendly).

BS has played in every game.

We are not in a position to discuss the relative merits of their performances this season because Ellis has not been given a fair crack at the whip yet, whilst BS has been afforded every opportunity to impress. It seems he has not won that many people over...yet.

Mind you in saying that ‘the Pickler’ is a tough act to follow.

[royalgull]

Ellis has been here long enough to judge his pros and cons regardless of this season. Interesting that you wouldn't count Tuesday yet if he'd played well i'm sure you might have done :p From what I've seen of Ellis over the years, he's ok. Very inconsistant, excellent on his day and a liability when not. haven't been too impressed with Saah thus far, but having said all of this, because we haven't had Leadbitter fit, all 3 of these lads will play Saturday again. Because Oastler isn't a right back.

The last point is the most valid point, replacing Branston - impossible.

[yellow]

What has Leadbitter got to do with Ellis or Saah? He is an unknown quantity. Ellis meanwhile I know what I will get, and that is commitment...

This is a diamond. He needs honing and polishing, but quality will out in the end....

[royalgull]

What has Leadbitter got to do with Ellis or Saah? He is an unknown quantity. Ellis meanwhile I know what I will get, and that is commitment...

This is a diamond. He needs honing and polishing, but quality will out in the end....

Quite simple, Leadbitter will mean our best CB (robertson) isn't playing right back anymore. Hopefully.

Ellis has been a rough diamond for what, 4 years now?. Time to start showing some consistency.

[Colorado Gull]

Because Oastler isn't a right back.

Where would you play Oastler then Royal?

[Gulliball]

Ellis at 18 looks very similar to Ellis aged 22.

I really thought he'd play in the Championship at least. But if he doesn't get into our first team aged 23 [30 Sept] (he's 6 days older than me, that's the only reason I know his age), then I think he'll be a good L2 player, but never higher. He's always prone to the odd error - maybe that could have been worked out of him in time, or maybe it's something he can't get over. At the end of the day it's his career - he has the potential to play higher, but potential is a meaningless word unless it's paired with actual achievement.

I played against Elllis when I was 15 or so. We were 3-0 up at half time, and he arrived at HT, having come back from playing for Exeter's youth team in the morning. We ended up losing 5-3 after he made that much difference to the game. After that, I've always followed his career, and he got a move to a Premiership team, and then ended up at Torquay.

If he goes on to be a L2 player then a part of me will always be disappointed, having hoped to have played against a Premiership player, but I will always have that monent when he scored against Notts County live on Sky and I could turn to all my uni friends and say I played against him.

But anyway - he's only 22, don't write Ellis off yet. Robertson is a L2 plodder (nothing wrong with that, Branston was a hero, and it will be hard to fill his shoes) but Ellis can still play higher than Branston ever did, whatever the latter said about the former.

[tufcbrett]

Just because he would be 23 doesnt mean he can get better and get up the leagues. A lot of players in the lower leagues do have to wait until there older to get there chance. 23 for a centre half is still very young and if he can manage to get a first team spot with us for a few seasons then im sure he will get his chance higher up.

I agree though if in a few years and hes still sat on our bench and cant start then he wont go much further.

Ellis is being tracked by Championship clubs as i had to watch him myself last season for Cardiff. Also learning that Derby and Coventry were also following his progress. Dont let it suprise you that if when he was 24/25 and he got a move up. He would still have a good 10 years at least if he stayed fit from 25.

[yellow]

Quite simple, Leadbitter will mean our best CB (robertson) isn't playing right back anymore. Hopefully.

Ellis has been a rough diamond for what, 4 years now?. Time to start showing some consistency.

Somewhat tricky if you don’t get games. Under the t*sser this was understandable as he was clueless.

Now under Dinger it is down to lack of knowledge and a bias towards his own protégé in BS.

Cream will rise to the top if allowed the opportunity....

[Gulliball]

But he has to show that soon. In one month's time he'll be 23 - Not over the hill, but old enough to be a regualar at L2 level.

I don't doubt that Championship sides are watching him - he has raw potential to play at that level, but he hasn't proven himself at even L2 level yet. I want him to succeed more than most, but if he doesn't then he can only have himself to blame.

He's started enough games at this level (plus training) to have secured a starting spot. If Buckle and Ling both don't consider him worthy a spot then he's either the unluckiest player ever (that they have a personal preference for Robertson and Saah respectively), or he's an average L2 defender who will go no higher.

On his plus side, he's a local lad (played in the South Devon league for Kingsmeadow when I played for Marldon, managed by Matt Hockley's dad, Kevin (RIP). On paper it means nothing, but having a local boy in the side is a huge 'extra' to a side at our level.

I'm willing him to start tomorrow, turn in a MOTM performance (even though we win) and go on to play at a higher level.