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Akin to a fan arguing with stewards while a match is in progress maybe?

You couldn't imagine such a thing could you?

forevertufc wrote:Well having heard some of the personal dogs abuse shouted out some of our players during the course of this season, I'm hardly surprised it's getting the point some of them our offering fans outside, the abuse is equally embarrassing as some of our teams performances, personal abuse directed at the players is not called regardless of any circumstance.

There is no way our current league position can be blamed on Martin Rice, he does have clear limitations, he may not have the overall ability for this level, that's probably not doubted by anyone, but also to be fair Ricey isn't helped by the most calamitous 'keystones kops' back four that play in front of him.

Some say Ricey doesn't know whether to stick our twist, with this back four, I'm pretty sure Joe Hart wouldn't know either.

I'm sure there are some who will back me up here, when it comes to goalkeeping 9-10ths of the law is CONFIDENCE, how does it help Ricey's confidence when he keeps conceding goals that he has no chance of keeping out, from situations that should have been, and would been defended properly by school boys.

I will be the first to agree, the goalkeeping position is one that needs looking at along with the entire back four, Angus MacDonald, maybe at a push Aaron Downes all tough don't see that happening are the only ones I'd keep, the rest including Ives are not good enough period.

Golden rule a professional footballer does not get involved with the crowd.
You said Rice has his limitations but and does not deserve the abuse I agree but it happens. Joe Hart would have kept us in the top half of the league as he would have organised the bad back four. Ives in a better set up would be good enough, the problem is the players he's playing with have lost confidence and a few need their backsides kicked. It's a great shame Angus is out injured as you said he is a leader. Downes legs have gone he's lost when one on one when the ball gets behind him.
Rice made the same mistakes through the years and when he's came into the side at the end of last season he played above expectation and Hargreaves gave him the benefit of doubt which was a big mistake as there are better non-league keepers about.

Comedians do it like watter of a ducky's back - give hecklers as good as they get. Offering them outside during a show is absolutely unprofessional conduct. This is the difference between a professional comedian and an amateur comedian playing at trying to be a professional footballer.

Trojan 67 wrote:Comedians do it like watter of a ducky's back - give hecklers as good as they get. Offering them outside during a show is absolutely unprofessional conduct. This is the difference between a professional comedian and an amateur comedian playing at trying to be a professional footballer.

But we're not talking about heckling, we're not talking about the groans from the crowd when a guilt edged chance to score was missed, or because a simple pass was misplaced, we're not talking about the odd shout from the crowd for a player to give more.

We're talking about full on personal abuse, often related to the player removing himself from the team and life, or things relating to a players family and worse.

Yes us fans get frustrated when things aren't going right, I do that's for sure. But I can not for the life me understand why people think, because they've paid there £20 they have the right shout what they like in the name of free speech and the fact they've paid their money so I'll do what I want.

If any of us went into our local hospital a shouted such abuse at the staff after being kept waiting, the police would be called and you'd be arrested, no shouts of I pay my National insurance is going justify those actions, same in a shop, you can't say I spend £100 a week in here, I can abuse the staff if I want to.

There has to be an understanding our players are under massive pressure right now, as is our captain, some of these lads will never have experienced pressure like it in their careers, then you have CH who says I'm the manager it's my job to take the pressure of these lads. Well it's game 40 feel free to step in any time you like Mr Hargreaves, oh, of course fans blaming the players kind of suits you down to the ground, doesn't it.

forevertufc wrote:But we're not talking about heckling, we're not talking about the groans from the crowd when a guilt edged chance to score was missed, or because a simple pass was misplaced, we're not talking about the odd shout from the crowd for a player to give more.

We're talking about full on personal abuse, often related to the player removing himself from the team and life, or things relating to a players family and worse.

Yes us fans get frustrated when things aren't going right, I do that's for sure. But I can not for the life me understand why people think, because they've paid there £20 they have the right shout what they like in the name of free speech and the fact they've paid their money so I'll do what I want.

If any of us went into our local hospital a shouted such abuse at the staff after being kept waiting, the police would be called and you'd be arrested, no shouts of I pay my National insurance is going justify those actions, same in a shop, you can't say I spend £100 a week in here, I can abuse the staff if I want to.

There has to be an understanding our players are under massive pressure right now, as is our captain, some of these lads will never have experienced pressure like it in their careers, then you have CH who says I'm the manager it's my job to take the pressure of these lads. Well it's game 40 feel free to step in any time you like Mr Hargreaves, oh, of course fans blaming the players kind of suits you down to the ground, doesn't it.

I do agree with a lot of what you are saying but that is what Torquay United are paying the stewards for to stop things like that happening. I have been always taught not to speak to anyone other than the team squad after the team talk and focas on the game.

arcadia wrote:I do agree with a lot of what you are saying but that is what Torquay United are paying the stewards for to stop things like that happening. I have been always taught not to speak to anyone other than the team squad after the team talk and focas on the game.

Try doing that for 40 odd games though, when you are getting constant abuse from "fans" such as the like that Dave highlighted above. The first few games you'd just ignore it - but after game 40 I'm sure you'd lose your head....I know I would.

Scott Brehaut wrote: Try doing that for 40 odd games though, when you are getting constant abuse from "fans" such as the like that Dave highlighted above. The first few games you'd just ignore it - but after game 40 I'm sure you'd lose your head....I know I would.

Someone like the 'manager' should be telling the player he is not good enough if it continued as this is why the crowd is getting at him.
This is why some players ask for transfers!
I've never seen abuse carry on for a long time, if it did surely the club should organise the stewards to warn the abusers.

So, just because a player isn't good enough, that gives "fans" permission to abuse them from the sides?

There's a difference between somebody shouting out "You're shit Rice" (and I use him as an example as he has been discussed above), and "Why don't you **** off and die" etc.

Don't tell me it doesn't go on, because there are plenty of people that have heard it.

Scott Brehaut wrote:So, just because a player isn't good enough, that gives "fans" permission to abuse them from the sides?

There's a difference between somebody shouting out "You're sh*t Rice" (and I use him as an example as he has been discussed above), and "Why don't you f*** off and die" etc.

Don't tell me it doesn't go on, because there are plenty of people that have heard it.

Scott I agree with you but these people should be evicted from the ground but the problem is we would have fewer spectators I've not heard the abuse as I watch from the other side of the ground perhaps I'm not in a position to comment but I do feel the players should not get involved as if you shout back it just encourages the abuse.

That's just it though - the abuse has become untenable and beaten them down. It's natural that eventually somebody was going to snap.