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austrianandygull wrote:Grimethorpe is nice Chris

I delivered some fence panels there when i worked at B&Q and it's worse than Beirut. That was just this blokes house!! F*ck knows what he wanted fence panels for! I couldn't even find his f*cking garden through the undergrowth and discarded bikes!

dont call our barnsley lasses that!


hence, thats why we call it grimthorpe or grimley as it was in brassed off! =D

im suprised that
1. your wheels were still on and
2. even your mode of transport was still there!

ferrarilover wrote:London in 1989 was built entirely on banking and high finance. When the crash came and all the red braces and Porsche 911 brigade found themselves jobless, they didn't turn to crack cocaine and prostitution. London didn't become Baghdad, they simple picked themselves up, dusted themselves down and redoubled their efforts in another field. The north, despite being grim, is a perfectly viable place but for the sake of a little will to work.

It IS possible to graft (there's a northern phrase) your way out of trouble. This is a football forum, we have all seen Stoke City, no real talent, but a hell of a work rate, and that is what hard work and application, even in the absence of skill, can achieve.

Matt.

There's a flaw in this theory somewhere, since so many people work hard all their lives, yet remain in poverty. And if any such people become unemployed, they would not have red braces and porsches to help them bounce back.

No doubt some exceptional people can graft their way out of trouble and into a life of affluence. But it's not something everyone, or even anyone, can do. I recently heard somebody say that if you have talent and energy you can be a king, if you have only energy you can at least be a prince, but if you have talent without energy you will remain a pauper. But this still doesn't explain those energetic people who graft hard all their lives whilst remaining in poverty.

Obviously other factors must be involved, but it's easy to understand why, to such people, private enterprise would be regarded as a dog-eat-dog anti-social way of living and capitalism just another form of slavery. It is said that war, not necessity, is the mother of invention, but at what cost to society? Oh I forgot, Thatcher said there's no such thing as society. But could it be that co-operation, not competition, is ultimately the best way forward for humanity?

All people are different and not everyone can be a super high flyer who is able to progress in their careers to the top. Take me for example, i have worked with animals for the past 15 years in what is technically classed as an 'unskilled' role but to me and the people in the industry it is anything but. I have to know the ins and outs of EVERY SINGLE aspect of a wide variety of animals to make sure they get the best husbandry and i also need to know so i can pass on vital information to other people including members of the public in an advisory capacity. On top of that i have to be able to provide exceptional customer service, be able to transport animals wide and far ( which is a f*cking nightmare if one of your dogs isn't the best of travellers ), be able to vaccinate, microchip, euthanase and administer treatments to animals under veterinary licence for which i have to be extensively trained to do, i have to fundraise, let scrawny little kids throw sponges of water at my face at summer events, travel all over the county at my own expense to do home visits, i have to be able to handle all animals safely, humanely and professionally and this list is by no means exhaustive. I get just above minimum wage.

Now 10 - 15 years ago, i could have done this job until i was 65 and been able to afford to house my family. As long as you worked hard even on a low income you could at least afford to buy your own house however small. Now even if you earn 20k you've pretty much got no chance unless you have a massive deposit and even then it will be a slum.

Now i would love to be able to earn more but my personality just doesn't allow for it. I would like to be the manager of an animal centre or something one day and have a more senior role but it's just not going to happen. I KNOW i can do the job but it's the people management and communication side of things which i don't have so i can't do it. I'm stubborn, militant, reactive and have set ways that things should be done and people like me just don't get on in senior positions because nobody wants people having strong opinions or upsetting the apple cart. I've got a degree and qualifications too but i can't earn more than £16 or £17 K a year. So no matter how hard i work and how many qualifications i have, it's my PERSONALITY that stops me progressing in a career and earning more. You can change your job but not your personality. Like i said, there was a time when this would have been enough and so long as i worked hard and was a decent citizen then certain things like housing and bog standard holidays were accessible to me, now , people like me have got no chance regardless. We can't all be dynamic, management type people, some of us are just commoners with aspirations that can never be reached no matter how many hours we work or how many qualifications we have or how much we want it.

So like Gullscorer touches upon, maybe my case is partly an explanation why some people can work hard and be educated but remain in poverty. Not to mention rip off Britain playing the biggest part in enslaving everyone to poverty who cannot for whatever reason earn more than £20k a year, and even then you still cannot buy the one piece of security that EVERYONE dreams about - a roof over your head.

Maybe if the Government offered confidence and empowerment classes which is actually what people from poor, rough backgrounds NEED to make something of their lives and banish the inner beliefs that have been instilled in us by parents (loving parents i must add ) but parents with archaic views in the 70's and 80's which are now ingrained and need to be got rid of THEN thousands upon thousands or working class people could reach their aspirations.

Confidence and belief are key to being successful and myself and the people i spent my formative years with just didn't have any - that's how it was in the late 80's in northern mining villages. Now i suppose we are paying the price through no fault of our own. Perhaps Maggie has played a part in keeping people like me down after all?

The mining industry was a industry going no where in the 80's in Britain. The cost to process the material mined was starting to cost more than the material itself. It's the same with the steel industry. The market to sell these products is worldwide and when you South America and China mining for a fraction of what we could do it for then it is not rocket science to see why these industries where treated as they were. I know it sucked for all those families and workers but sadly that is a fact of life.

usagullmichigan wrote:The mining industry was a industry going no where in the 80's in Britain. The cost to process the material mined was starting to cost more than the material itself. It's the same with the steel industry. The market to sell these products is worldwide and when you South America and China mining for a fraction of what we could do it for then it is not rocket science to see why these industries where treated as they were. I know it sucked for all those families and workers but sadly that is a fact of life.

That is exactly what the anti-Thatcher brigade could never accept.

Matt also raises a good point. Most of these northern towns and villages that "died" simply failed to move with the times. Communities tore themselves apart by accepting a life on the dole instead of getting off their arses and moving to where the work was to be had. How many people from the Torbay area had to move away when leaving school to enhance their job prospects? I know I did. My parents chose to move my family rather than allow us to fall into the same trap that many did.

Thatcher was far from perfect, but she was far far better than any single one of her successors. Socialism has had a far more detrimental effect on the solvency of this country than any of Thatcher's policies.

Interesting to read the views of people though with a clear north v south divide.

usagullmichigan wrote:The mining industry was a industry going no where in the 80's in Britain. The cost to process the material mined was starting to cost more than the material itself. It's the same with the steel industry. The market to sell these products is worldwide and when you South America and China mining for a fraction of what we could do it for then it is not rocket science to see why these industries where treated as they were. I know it sucked for all those families and workers but sadly that is a fact of life.

this isnt correct im afraid.
the mining industry succumbed to cheap imported coal. that was the main reason of the demise and that was brought about by the thatcher govt subsidising the price of it to enter the UK to make it cheaper than british mined coal.
there are still pits operating and there would have been probably 80% of the pits still opened now. I know this as fact - not as a socialist or National Union of Mineworkers view - but from a British Coal view - in fact a relative that worked for the British Coal Board.
The fact is that that maggie wanted to defeat the miners. in some respects to show ted heath how to do it.
As for the steel industry, there are still profitable, working steelworks operating in Yorkshire, Wales and Lincolnshire.

Southampton Gull wrote:That is exactly what the anti-Thatcher brigade could never accept.

Matt also raises a good point. Most of these northern towns and villages that "died" simply failed to move with the times. Communities tore themselves apart by accepting a life on the dole instead of getting off their arses and moving to where the work was to be had. How many people from the Torbay area had to move away when leaving school to enhance their job prospects? I know I did. My parents chose to move my family rather than allow us to fall into the same trap that many did.

Thatcher was far from perfect, but she was far far better than any single one of her successors. Socialism has had a far more detrimental effect on the solvency of this country than any of Thatcher's policies.

Interesting to read the views of people though with a clear north v south divide.

Dave it wasnt the fact that people in the communities couldnt accept it - it was the way it was done that caused all the problems and resentment.

SuperNickyWroe wrote:this isnt correct im afraid.
the mining industry succumbed to cheap imported coal. that was the main reason of the demise and that was brought about by the thatcher govt subsidising the price of it to enter the UK to make it cheaper than british mined coal.
there are still pits operating and there would have been probably 80% of the pits still opened now. I know this as fact - not as a socialist or National Union of Mineworkers view - but from a British Coal view - in fact a relative that worked for the British Coal Board.
The fact is that that maggie wanted to defeat the miners. in some respects to show ted heath how to do it.
As for the steel industry, there are still profitable, working steelworks operating in Yorkshire, Wales and Lincolnshire.

I'm afraid it is. The mining industry was costing the tax payer a lot of money to keep them going. The car industry was the same in the 90's. The goverment kept throwing money at it and it still when down the pan. Millions wasted.

Thatcher divided the country in life and is now dividing it in death!

usagullmichigan wrote: I'm afraid it is. The mining industry was costing the tax payer a lot of money to keep them going. The car industry was the same in the 90's. The goverment kept throwing money at it and it still when down the pan. Millions wasted.

and you have facts to back up your statement?
I certainly do.

And I would like to hear yours.

Years after the railway industry was privatised, it is still being heavily subsidised by the government. Other industries: motor manufacture, shipbuilding, mining, steel industry, either no longer exist or are almost totally foreign-owned. Our tourist industry which could earn much-needed foreign money from countries such as Brazil, China, Japan, and India, is stymied due to complicated and expensive visa application requirements.

Thatcher won three elections only because of a divided Labour party at war with itself, which resulted in the Thatcherite Blair government and the sham democracy we now have, drifting inexorably into a politically correct police state governed by a totalitarian European Union. All our current social problems, in housing, education, health, crime and social services, can be traced back to the time of her government.

I'm no academic, but I've read much and consider myself to be pretty well informed. I've no time now to quote chapter and verse; the facts are there for those willing to do their own research; of course, there's always more than one version of history, depending on who writes it, and people often see only what they want to see..

Behind-the-Gulls wrote:Thatcher divided the country in life and is now dividing it in death!

God bless her.

ferrarilover wrote:Immigration?

Aye and from your previous post, are you concluding that UKIP are racist!?

Just as a side issue, we all know that Maggie Thatcher is like marmite and there is/was talk of holding a minutes silence for her at football grounds so i believe if this was forced upon people then if they didn't respect her in life then why should they in death? If the powers that be want to do this then fair enough but don't expect it to be observed and when it's not don't go labelling the dissenters idiots or having no respect for the dead because that is what will happen. It's always their way or no way all the time and i'm sick of it. I have no respect for her as am individual alive or dead so why should i 'observe' something that i don't agree with? I'd be a liar to myself if that was the case. Those who wish to pay their respects keep quiet snd those who don't boo or something. Fair enough isn't it?