Torquay United v Grimsby Town – Saturday 18th October

[Scott Brehaut]

I don't think I've yet read a report on here that states Rice did anything right today. Some excellent reports guys (thanks) - there are some sensible posters on here and when even they are having major doubts about Rice, alarm bells should be ringing all over Plainmoor.

On Facebook, Martin's profile is open so that all can see it (why do people still do that!!??) On his status, he says this:

Line has been drawn putting things right as from Monday I'm gutted, our squad is strong and we WILL be back to where we should be!

The trouble is Martin, whilst our squad IS good, when the keeper is throwing games away, there is little they are able to do.

Time for a change Mr Hargreaves?

[brucie]

Oh god thats not comforting news - If Hargreaves sticks with Rice as his number one we will finish in the bottom half.
Rice is a confidence keeper, When he let four in against Southend his confidence went after he gifted them the first. Thats why he let in three sitters against Telford - he was again affected by the first howler against them.
I've seen it time and time again. Rice has to be dropped for the next game - even if we play Seabright he surely cannot be any worse.

[Sunnysideup]

Rice, unfortunately, has always been a liability. When Buckle dropped Rsynor to persist with Rice during 07/08 it cost us so many points that we dropped out of title contention

Rubbish, Rice only played 9 times that season in the BSP and we won 6 of them. Raynor played 32 matches.

[Yellow4life]

Just a note on the referee, just because it's a players first foul is irrelevant to whether he is cautioned or not, it's the actual challenge. The guy who fouled Cameron should have been however.

Went today and had high hopes after a fast start but chances were not taken or were unlucky. Their keeper looked shaky and I knew young would score that free kick. From my view there third goal didn't look all the way over the line (like it should to make it a goal) but we didn't recover from there. Poor substitutions again in my opinion, where is Yeoman...

[Dutchgull]

Would Yeoman made a difference ? I somehow doubt it. What would have made a difference would have been a commanding no-nonsense goalkeeper with a Torquay United shirt on.

[Dave]

I just try to be honest with what I write about games, but it has to be remembered at the back end of last season most of us agreed Martin Rice was the most improved player at the club, at the start of this season he was making the difference between 3 pts and 1 pt with some superb displays I haven't forgotten that.

But there's no hiding from the fact of late he's dropped more than a few clangers, yesterday I looked at the Grimsby keeper and not just focussing on saves he made, but his all around domination of his area, crosses, corners a keeper who knew what he needed to do, and his defenders had complete confidence in him, the Grimsby keeper who looked fully confident all game.

Martin Rice, again I sorry to say this because he has been good for us recently, looked like a scared rabbit. That said no blame can be put on Martin Rice at all for their first goal, but the second indecision, and their 3rd, not just the fumble but the fact he appeared to dive backwards, which any keeper will tell you is a major fault, all keepers are coached to push their weight forwards on a dive, you then dive forward and narrow the angle.

I'm not going point any finger of blame at CH, as said on another thread he has a very limited budget, he still has a number of major wage earners from last season at the club, he has to get the wage bill down, we have Seabright, saw some of him in pre-season, he looks a younger version of Ricey, not he answer, and with 2 fit keepers CH can not justify going into the loan market, it is what it is, we got relegated we're non-league, our income after this season will drop massively.

[Mattpuma]

The fact that our income will drop massively if we dont get promotion is the very reason it is imperative to get a decent keeper in. It doesnt have to cost the earth to get a competent goalkeeper. Presumably we have a scouting system and are watching players all the time. There must be clubs at a higher level who want their players to gain some first team experience and will not charge us the earth. The likes of Accrington get Bettinelli from Fulham and we know they are a smaller club than us. We simply cant afford to not replace Rice. The reason we were relegated from League 1 was solely due to not having a reliable keeper.
We have a loan player we dont need sitting on the bench so surely we can swap him for a keeper.

[tommyg]

Until today, I had only half-heartedly agreed with Brucie about the failings of Martin Rice. The difference in today's match was that Grimsby had a 'keeper that brought off four top class saves in the first 20 minutes, especially saves from a MacDonald header and yet another blistering free kick from Luke Young. We on the other hand had Martin Rice who was responsible for two of their goals and his distribution was mostly poor.

Swanny in another excellent match report said that Rice had no chance with their first goal. From where I was standing on about the halfway line on the Pop side, it looked as if Rice was alarmingly slow coming off his line. What do others think who had a better view of the goal?

I don't agree that Seabright should go in goal next week 'just because it's a Cup game'. We need a decent cup run to boost the club's finances. But as others have already posted, if we hope to get in the Play Offs, we must bring in a 'keeper on loan. The Wrexham keeper who looked very competent was on loan from Stoke and I think he's only 19. Lincoln have a promising young keeper on loan from Birmingham. There must be good keepers out there who would rather be playing each week than sitting on the bench.

There was another difference today - Grimsby have John-Lewis who is a very good striker at this level. We on the other hand have Ryan Bowman. I'm sorry - I know there are several on here who think he's going to score 15 goals during the season. I'm not convinced. In fact, of all Hargreaves signings, I think he's been the one disappointment so far.

P.S. A word on the ref - personally, I thought he did reasonably well handling a highly charged match. I thought Tonge's booking was unnecessary - I think it was his first foul of the game - and also Young's booking which was right in front of us for a rather innocuous challenge which I think was Young's first foul
Their no 4 - Brown (who had a good game) should definitely have been booked for blocking Cameron (?) which lead to the free kick for Luke Young's goal. Penalty shouts for handballs would have been harsh and there were no appeals from our players.

I've read a few posts on here suggesting that next week's game at Aldershot is less important than our league matches, but I'd say it was the opposite because of the financial windfall and ramifications a decent cup run can produce. Beat Aldershot and Hargreaves might be able to sign a new goalkeeper. Lose and we could be forced to stick with Rice and Seabright. This cup run could also have an impact on how long we can keep the vultures away from Young.

The only time I've seen Seabright was in the developmental match against Plymouth. I think the highlights are on here somewhere and his performance didn't fill me with confidence. He was at fault for at least one goal but it's harsh to judge him on one meaningless game. He must be given a chance because at the moment we have to score three or four goals to win a game. If Hargreaves doesn't think he is good enough then you have to ask why he signed him in the first place.

"Jordan is a good young 'keeper who will give real competition to Martin Rice for the No.1 spot, and he's had enough experience so that he could go straight into the first team if needed." - a quote from Hargreaves after signing Seabright

Hargreaves must keep his word or sign a goalkeeper or loan (if he's allowed to by the board) because persisting with Rice will see us fall out of the play-off picture very quickly.

Moving on to Bowman, like Tomo, I'm disappointed with his goal return so far (one in his last eight). I was warned by a friend of mine who supports York that he misses easy chances and that has been the case. He should already be on double figures and his place must be under threat due to the emergence of Briscoe as a striker and O'Achie patiently waiting on the sidelines. I still think Bowman will come good and wouldn't rule out him finishing close to the 20-goal mark, but he's not producing the goods right now.

[Dave]

Totally agree with your sentiment Mattpuma, but if our club is in a position where by it's spending as much as it earns, or likely spending more than it earns then CH will be in a position where he will have to justify every penny he spends, he has two fit keepers, my point is CH has a budget and it's very small he couldn't afford to sign any keeper better than what he did in Rice/Seabright.

If CH goes to the board and asks money to bring in a loan keeper which he would need for the season (unlikely to be free) the board are going to say no, as said we have two fit keepers. The only likely chance of getting a loan keeper in would be a free loan, problem with that would be two fold one; we had a few free loans last season, do not think there was a decent player between them, tow; no club is going let a player go out loan for nothing for more than month, which solves nothing for us.

[hector]

It is a shame the rumoured talks with Chris Weale, didn't pay off. He went back to Yeovil but has already fallen out of favour to yet another ex-Exeter dodgy keeper in Krysiak.

It is true that Rice can pull off some good saves but like many others point out, he is not remotely a commanding goalkeeper and how many points did his hesitancy cost us last year? When a defence does not have any confidence in its keeper, than no wonder it can be jittery. I felt in his radio interview, Hargreaves was alluding to Rice when he said something along the lines of basics not being done properly but not wanting to name individuals.

Hargreaves would be fully justified in dropping his keeper - Rice would have zero room for complaint but the economics probably dictate us being lumbered with one or other of our inadequate goalkeepers.

Rice has been at fault for around 6 goals in recent weeks, and that follows moments like his episode of madness at home to Dover when he rushed out and was rounded, only for the Dover player to miss the open goal by hitting over. He is a liability, unfortunately, and it is ridiculous that in recent weeks we have scored 3 and 2 and 2, yet we have still lost games with each game bringing errors from the keeper.

Starting with Rice, means we essentially have to score two or three a game to have a chance of winning and it would be worth loaning Seabright out, returning Rice to the subs bench and if at all possible, bring a better keeper in on loan. It is unfair on the rest of the team, who yesterday saw good work undone by incompetency in goal.

[Neal]

Some of the stuff written on here is total crap bourne out of frustration and a blinkered view of our performances. Rice was by popular demand our goalkeeping choice for this season, bar one Bruce who has never rated him and may be proved right in the end. Hard for some of you to swallow no doubt.

Everytime we lose its either a "bad day at the office" because lets face it we are Torquay United and are a good team or its bad refereering or its Martin Rice. Someone can't remember who and can't be bothered to check called me crazed for having the audacity to suggest we might not actually BE that good. We have some good players at this level there is no doubt, but as a team, and even during the recent good run, not EVERY one of those games were we top boll@cks!

There are people that think that if we play outstanding in a couple of matches that is the default, and then if we play badly for a couple that is not the norm, its either someone else's fault usually the ref or its a blip, ridiculous! We are the 9th best team in the conference up till now, that's it, FGR ARE better than us!

Our squad is not strong, but we do have 6 or 7 decent players. If CH had got in a more expensive GK then maybe we couldn't have afforded Luke Young, who knows. So I don't blame CH at all for having Rice as number one. But things have changed and maybe we should try Seabright, why not, unless you try him you will never know.

[brucie]

Hargreaves isn't going to come out and say it but clearly he has eyes and is able to see. Whilst I havn't seen the goals from yesterday it seems reasonable to assume that Rice has cost us three points. Without debating his other errors over recent weeks he also cost us three points at Telford. It is ridiculous that we scored three goals away from home and still managed to lose courtesy of the goalkeeper.
So being charitable thats SIX points he has cost us at the very least.
Yes he has improved but going from liability to bang average and then going to worse than useless isn't going to help us.
Has he been that good this season? - he is a liability when the ball comes into the box (just look at the Alfreton disallowed goal as a case in point)
He has been bailed out time and time again by the brilliance of Downes and Macdonald.
Its got to be soul destroying as an outfield player when you have no confidence when Cocoa the Clown is playing behind you.
With been stuck with rubbish like Lloyd Macklin and co for years and thats why we are where we are.
Rice has never been a professional goalkeeper in the same way that Chris Mcphee has never been a footballer.
We havn't a prayer of challenging for promotion with this clown in goal - play him next week and exactly the same thing will happen.

[brucie]

Neal are you barking mad or what. Have a look at the Telford goals? we scored three and lost because Rice has let in three howlers. If we had a goalkeeper we would have won 3-1. Is that too difficult to grasp?

[hector]

Some of the stuff written on here is total crap bourne out of frustration and a blinkered view of our performances. Rice was by popular demand our goalkeeping choice for this season, bar one Bruce who has never rated him and may be proved right in the end. Hard for some of you to swallow no doubt.

Everytime we lose its either a "bad day at the office" because lets face it we are Torquay United and are a good team or its bad refereering or its Martin Rice. Someone can't remember who and can't be bothered to check called me crazed for having the audacity to suggest we might not actually BE that good. We have some good players at this level there is no doubt, but as a team, and even during the recent good run, not EVERY one of those games were we top boll@cks!

There are people that think that if we play outstanding in a couple of matches that is the default, and then if we play badly for a couple that is not the norm, its either someone else's fault usually the ref or its a blip, ridiculous! We are the 9th best team in the conference up till now, that's it, FGR ARE better than us!

Our squad is not strong, but we do have 6 or 7 decent players. If CH had got in a more expensive GK then maybe we couldn't have afforded Luke Young, who knows. So I don't blame CH at all for having Rice as number one. But things have changed and maybe we should try Seabright, why not, unless you try him you will never know.

I think there have been quite a few people who have long expressed reservations about Martin Rice. It is stretching credulity to suggest he was 'by popular choice' our no.1 this season. I think many thought 'he would do' but regardless, the seemingly overwhelming view - and often in quite distasteful terms - on the Pop Side yesterday, was that Rice was at fault and for many others that he should be dropped. It won't have been very nice for him to hear nor to read, and he didn't make is his customary walk over to the Pop Side to applaud supporters yesterday, so he probably has a fair idea of their feelings (not that I blame him for keeping his head down at the final whistle - the poor bloke must have wanted the ground to open up and swallow him).

The spotlight is now well and truly on him and, for his own sake, he probably needs a spell out of the limelight because he is going to be under the microscope a fair bit more now.

I feel sorry for him really, he seems a likable bloke by all accounts and he must be crestfallen today but goalkeeper is the one position you cannot make errors in. Many outfield players would have made errors yesterday, missed shots, mis-placed passes, mistimed tackles etc, but sadly, for the keeper, you just cannot afford them. One every few games will make you seem dodgy, so to be doing it sometimes two or three times EACH game is fatal.

[Ausgull]

Ricey has lost all confidence over the past couple of weeks and CH has stated that he will have to consider some tough decisions and they should start with the goalkeeper.