TorquayFans.com | Torquay United Fans Forum

Tobebythesea wrote: Persuading a few daft old OAPs to dip into their pension pots does not make him a businessman. When a mate of mine tried to sponsor a match and hold a function before the match last season his numerous phone calls and emails went unanswered, so he gave up.

Added in 1 minute 24 seconds:
Brilliant. Thought Deano was talking about the 1980s not the 1880s.

Arense Wenger says that if a boy hasn’t received a sufficient volume of quality coaching by the time he is 11 or 12 he will never make it as a pro. He’s going to be f**king annoyed to find out that all he had to do was to stroll over to Hackney Marshes to find the next Thierry Henry. Sacre Bleu !

That's not my point, my point is that all these kids are missing out on the fun of playing local football, and sacrificing all that being young is about, for nothing, in the hope that they will make it as a pro, yet it's almost certain they won't. The very elite that Wenger is talking about might requirethat. I can't believe the same is true at our level.

dcorbs wrote:Spare a thought for the talented youngsters who were either going into their second year or just about to start their scholarship. They have been left high and dry by the club, as nearly all clubs already have their scholars sorted. These boys have been left with next to no chance of finding a club. It is disgraceful timing by the club who should have notified these lads earlier, and definitely should not of offered, scholarships in February. There were some very talented young lads who were dedicated to the club, yet they have now been dumped without a care, who is going to take responsibility for this? and where do you think all your players are going to come from, for £200 a week, its a joke and so is the club.

Just a thought for dcorbs, motorman and other parents of Academy 15 year olds, as we all know, Yeovil are starting a level 3 Academy so would it be possible to obtain a scholarship there, or are they not able to take 'second year' lads at present? By the way, have I missed something - has Geoff Harrop actually joined Yeovil yet ?

Some people on here are making out as though this is an ill thought out decision.

Do you not think that, as part of their due diligence, the new consortium would have looked at everything to see what was sustainable and what wasn't?
Do you not think that if, as some have said, the academy paid for itself, that the new consortium would have felt the need to close it down?

All of those involved in the consortium that have put their own money into the club are clearly good business men and women who have done their homework and are now making tough decisions.
Not all will agree with them, but we haven't got the full facts and figures that they were and are privy to.

It's all well and good going off on one here - and as a parent myself I feel a degree of sympathy for you all seeing your child's dream in tatters - but clearly the new owners have decided that actually it was a case of either we keep the academy and lose the club or vice versa. With all due respect to those affected (and let's not forget that staff have lost their jobs here too), the decision was a no brainer as far as I'm concerned, and I look forward to the new season with new owners, a new manager, a new squad of players but, most importantly, with an actual club to support!!

Scott Brehaut wrote:Some people on here are making out as though this is an ill thought out decision.

Do you not think that, as part of their due diligence, the new consortium would have looked at everything to see what was sustainable and what wasn't?
Do you not think that if, as some have said, the academy paid for itself, that the new consortium would have felt the need to close it down?

All of those involved in the consortium that have put their own money into the club are clearly good business men and women who have done their homework and are now making tough decisions.
Not all will agree with them, but we haven't got the full facts and figures that they were and are privy to.

It's all well and good going off on one here - and as a parent myself I feel a degree of sympathy for you all seeing your child's dream in tatters - but clearly the new owners have decided that actually it was a case of either we keep the academy and lose the club or vice versa. With all due respect to those affected (and let's not forget that staff have lost their jobs here too), the decision was a no brainer as far as I'm concerned, and I look forward to the new season with new owners, a new manager, a new squad of players but, most importantly, with an actual club to support!!

Seconded

Scott Brehaut wrote:Do you not think that if, as some have said, the academy paid for itself, that the new consortium would have felt the need to close it down?

Hit the nail right on the head there Scott.

If the academy was self funding, it would have remained open. It isnt, therefore it closed.
How the **** people cant grasp a simple fact like that astounds me.
The club has limited resources available and can NOT afford to continue the academy.
The TUST hasnt got sufficient funds to run it for more than a handful of weeks so thats not an option.

The youngsters have my sympathy, but this is the real world. S**t happens.
I was gutted when I realised I wasnt going to be able to do what I had always dreamed of (eyesight not quite good enough).
You adjust your expectations towards something new, and the sooner the better.

Interesting that this thread seems to be twice as long as anything else (including the one about us having a new manager)
- it seems to be bolstered by some seriously bitter and twisted parents.
The closure of Torquays academy ultimately will not stop any child/youth becoming a professional footballer. If they are good enough a pro club will want them.
However what some parents cannot seem to grasp is that in almost EVERY case, their offspring are NOT good enough to be pro footballers.
Some parents just are not living in the real world and need a reality check.

brucie, hat's off to you, that is a good post

It is clearly the parent's dreams on here that have been shattered as much as the players. For 99.999999% of them the news that they would not make it as a pro footballer has just been bought forward, that's all

I've seen enough of academy football to understand how ineffective the whole thing is....the whole name of "Academy" or "Elite" or whatever name they give their teams puts these parents on a pedestal to make them truly believe their son's are going to have a career, and for them to happily subsidise the costs with travel, kit and monthly fees etc

...and yet the reality is few of these lads at 16 could get into the Teignmouth or Galmpton teams in the South West Peninsula league, the standard is just so much higher

For the cash laid out in the last few years, the academy has simply been a big white elephant and a drain of cash and time

forevertufc wrote: I do not the intimate details of the clubs finances either, but, when Steve Breed says the club was close to having the chains wrapped around the front door, I can only read between the lines and realise the club was in deep, deep trouble.

You of course may know more about the relegations regards youth academies than I do. However I am a qualified youth development coach (local level)in my own right, anyone on this forum who's done level 1,2 and the new youth module 1,2 that support those qualifications, will tell you, one of the things drummed into you right from the start is; football is for all.

For the that reason I do not see TUFC being topped from re-opening an academy some time down the line if it chose to do so, yes, I could see their perhaps being some restrictions on funding, but again, under the F.A's own banner of "football for all" that does not punish the club, but the kids trying to play football, so I do see it.

Thanks for that, enjoyed the discussion with you. However, we're now discussing the ins and outs of reopening the academy in some capacity but I sense it isn't part of any 5, 10 or even 20 year plan that the board may have. Which I think is a crying shame.

Brings me on to a bigger overarching point - why should relegation down one division for our first team result in the careers of hundreds of young footballs being sent to the furnace? Obviously reduced funding for relegation but it shouldn't completely bankrupt the youth system - it should be protected by governing bodies in my opinion.

stevegull wrote:Thanks for that, enjoyed the discussion with you. However, we're now discussing the ins and outs of reopening the academy in some capacity but I sense it isn't part of any 5, 10 or even 20 year plan that the board may have. Which I think is a crying shame.

Brings me on to a bigger overarching point - why should relegation down one division for our first team result in the careers of hundreds of young footballs being sent to the furnace? Obviously reduced funding for relegation but it shouldn't completely bankrupt the youth system - it should be protected by governing bodies in my opinion.

I very much agree. The FA talk the talk when the promote themselves as being invested in grass roots football but this example very much illustrates that this is not the case.

Following Kevin Foster's(New MP for Torbay) maiden speech yesterday this topic(funding of Youth Academies) ,will now be the subject of debate in Parliament-whether that actually leads to anything is another matter.

stevegull wrote: Thanks for that, enjoyed the discussion with you. However, we're now discussing the ins and outs of reopening the academy in some capacity but I sense it isn't part of any 5, 10 or even 20 year plan that the board may have. Which I think is a crying shame.

Brings me on to a bigger overarching point - why should relegation down one division for our first team result in the careers of hundreds of young footballs being sent to the furnace? Obviously reduced funding for relegation but it shouldn't completely bankrupt the youth system - it should be protected by governing bodies in my opinion.

No problem Steve and likewise. I perhaps allowed myself to become a little over frustrated when trying to answer some very, understandably angry parents yesterday, the point you've made here is spot on, and it was my intention to try and get this across to the parents before I started to go off on a tangent.

It's got nothing to do with Torquay United being a joke club, pathetic, or the ownership not wanting a youth set-up, so just bin it for the sake of it, the point I was trying to make is, the loss of funding , between League 2 and relegation down just division as you say is huge, and why should it be that way ? Almost like clubs are being punished for losing their place in the football league, something does need to be to keep funding filtering right down through to the National league, and beyond.

Leads me to another problem, talk to the national F.A about grassroots football, and the national league premier division is as low as they go, if our club ever, were to be relegated to the South division the national F.A would soon forget who we were, as our club would then come under the control, of Devon county F.A , effectively if the club got into trouble, it would have to report to Newton Abbot.

Going back to academies, Torquay United are by no means alone, Barnet on relegation close theirs and kept an U18 squad only, Mansfield close theirs completely, and for those like Dave Thomas who seem scared it could have gone forever, both have since re-opened. Interestingly Aldershot also closed theirs upon relegation, and now run an U15-18 scheme based entirely on the old apprentice/YTS style youth system, some akin that exactly what our club has just done or going down the road of.

Lincoln yet another club to close their academy completely upon relegation from the football league, now run a system again similar to what our club is trying to do, however theirs is run separately from the club, their parents pay a training fee, and it also obtains it's finance through sponsorship and grants. So as said we're by no means alone and it does not have to be the end of our club developing it's, home grown talent.

It is a shame, I know first hand with my own son, also as said back down thread I'm a locally qualified youth football coach, I worked in local youth football for 9 years stepped down at the end of last season, worked with lads who went into academy football, not just ours and worked with them again when some left, and seen just how devastated some are, my own son has developed the attitude, I want to be the best player I can be, no matter the level, he'll never be lost to football, and still works at 17 despite knowing the pro game is pretty much over for him on improving every aspect, if you've just been realised by TUFC , never give up, my son hasn't.

Parents must realise that professional academy football is highly pressurised, it's dog eat dog, both players and coach's, that's why I say it's not to late for some of these lads to find other clubs, Exeter for instance will look at some of our realised lads at all ages, including scholars,if a ex TUFC youth player is better than one they already have they'll drop that lad like a stone. Also parents must realise that such a tiny percentage actually make it in the game.

MidDevon wrote: I've seen enough of academy football to understand how ineffective the whole thing is....the whole name of "Academy" or "Elite" or whatever name they give their teams puts these parents on a pedestal to make them truly believe their son's are going to have a career, and for them to happily subsidise the costs with travel, kit and monthly fees etc

...and yet the reality is few of these lads at 16 could get into the Teignmouth or Galmpton teams in the South West Peninsula league, the standard is just so much higher

For the cash laid out in the last few years, the academy has simply been a big white elephant and a drain of cash and time

I accept the consortium's reasoning for closing down the Academy but I question your view that the Academy system is ineffective. Even leaving Matt Grimes out of the equation, it hasn't been ineffective for Exeter as several of their first team squad have come through their youth programme. We have had youth players that have gone on to better things - Gary Monk and Mike Williamson for example. The young goalkeeper who has gone to Southampton and now Dan Lavercombe who looks to be a good prospect. Then there's young Prynn still being trailed by Villa. I am told, but admittedly haven't seen for myself, that there were some promising players coming through our Academy so I don't think it's fair to say that Academy football is ineffective. What is grossly unfair is that Academy funding is cut for non-league sides.

tomogull wrote: I accept the consortium's reasoning for closing down the Academy but I question your view that the Academy system is ineffective. Even leaving Matt Grimes out of the equation, it hasn't been ineffective for Exeter as several of their first team squad have come through their youth programme. We have had youth players that have gone on to better things - Gary Monk and Mike Williamson for example. The young goalkeeper who has gone to Southampton and now Dan Lavercombe who looks to be a good prospect. Then there's young Prynn still being trailed by Villa. I am told, but admittedly haven't seen for myself, that there were some promising players coming through our Academy so I don't think it's fair to say that Academy football is ineffective. What is grossly unfair is that Academy funding is cut for non-league sides.

Very good points Tommo and I fully agree, but must point out that Monk and Williamson both came through the old apprentice style system run by the club, the very same type of system we've gone back too, so it doesn't have to mean the end of the very best young players making it at TUFC, one bit, however I do agree with midDevon the youth system now employed by the club, will stop the club from taking on 30 odd new lads every year, who have not got a cat in hells chance of making it, and the club pretty much knowing that, only the very best will make it, into this new "old" style youth system now run by our club.

Very good post Forever - sets out exactly the problems non-league clubs have. My only comment is that Bill Phillips assertion only about three weeks ago that the Academy wouldn't close made us a 'joke club' and when it did close, one parent commented that the club hadn't bothered to write or phone parents about the closure. That isn't exactly a glowing advert for this new world of greater communication. Although to be fair, only one parent has posted that on here so it may well have been a commication glitch somewhere along the line.

tomogull wrote:Very good post Forever - sets out exactly the problems non-league clubs have. My only comment is that Bill Phillips assertion only about three weeks ago that the Academy wouldn't close made us a 'joke club' and when it did close, one parent commented that the club hadn't bothered to write or phone parents about the closure. That isn't exactly a glowing advert for this new world of greater communication. Although to be fair, only one parent has posted that on here so it may well have been a commication glitch somewhere along the line.

Agreed, and some of what you say there, was a source of my frustration with some parents who were pointing the finger solely at the new board. The new board as we now know had a bid for the club turned down, in favour of 7 weeks exclusivity given to someone who probably was never going to buy the club, hence when they finally did get control they've been left with a ridiculously short time span to do a heck of a lot of work.

As I was trying to make the point yesterday, Bill Phillips was part if the old out going board, he never had the right to make such an assertion, and he never should have, period, he re-signed all the academy lads, but never actually sent the forms in, he clearly knew the academies future was up, so why did he give this assertion ? The new board can not, and should not be blamed for that.

As for contacting the parents, yes they all should have been notified, but, like you say it was only one who complained of that, again, we talking upwards of 150 lads/families that had to be notified, I guess the time span they had to do it in, again very short, could easily led to a mistake or two.