Torquay v Woking 14/01/17

[CP Gull]

You're falling into the David Thomas habit of counting goals against games started. If Williams, like yesterday, scored as a sub, how can that goal contribute towards a 'games started' stat?

I'm not against Williams by any means - I think he is the one player that offers evidence of KN's poor management - but the use of goals scored as a sub against games started, to fuel an idea of profiling forwards is something that Thomas always does for the likes of Benyon to make them look better than they are and it has always irked me.

Everything else you say about Williams, I agree with, however.

I agree too that stats can be misleading but I was responding to the 3 goals in 22 appearances "stat" which had been put up as evidence that he had had plenty of opportunities etc, etc.

Of course a far more accurate portrayal of Williams strike rate would be based on minutes played rather than either games started or total appearances made ... so guess what, relaxing on the sofa on a quiet Sunday .... I have come up with the answer!

Williams has made 9 starts but only actually started and finished FOUR games, in four of the other five starts he was taken off just past the hour mark. Of his 12 substitute appearances, he has never got more than 30 minutes .... as we know, Nicho hardly ever (if ever?) makes any substitutions before the hour mark which is nearly always when he brings the first sub on, regardless of what the situation is in the game.

Anyway, in total WIlliams has clocked up 974 minutes of match action this season - which equates to the equivalent of just 10 full (90 minute matches) and 74 minutes into an eleventh. As we know he has scored THREE times in total, so like I say not too bad a return when compared to other strikers who have been given far, far more game time.

[brucie]

Its just that your bloody stupid message seems to lay all the blame at Nicholsons door for not playing Williams. Actually I saw him play twice last season and I was underwhelmed. I was actually quite disappointed that we signed him.

Its all very well saying get over it because Blissett has gone. Well he was about the only fit for purpose striker we had. Signing Harrad who is another useless carthorse isn't the answer either.

We were in a worse position last year than this but look at the team then. Back four of Berry ,Smith, Macdonald and Butler. Raachi, Rees, Ajala, Iffy Allen, Andre Wright - blimey there is no comparison.

This team has relegation all over it. I am not saying that we should get in a whole new team but GI are supposed to be the fecking owners after all - Either back Nico or sack him but at least do something

[arcadia]

Its just that your bloody stupid message seems to lay all the blame at Nicholsons door for not playing Williams. Actually I saw him play twice last season and I was underwhelmed. I was actually quite disappointed that we signed him.

Its all very well saying get over it because Blissett has gone. Well he was about the only fit for purpose striker we had. Signing Harrad who is another useless carthorse isn't the answer either.

We were in a worse position last year than this but look at the team then. Back four of Berry ,Smith, Macdonald and Butler. Raachi, Rees, Ajala, Iffy Allen, Andre Wright - blimey there is no comparison.

This team has relegation all over it. I am not saying that we should get in a whole new team but GI are supposed to be the fecking owners after all - Either back Nico or sack him but at least do something

I look forward to your comments after the games as you know your football.

[Scott Brehaut]

The sooner somebody realises this club needs major financial surgery the better.

The issue isn't that we are waiting for sonebody to realise that we need major financial surgery - the issue is that we don't have anybody WILLING to invest!!

[hector]

I agree too that stats can be misleading but I was responding to the 3 goals in 22 appearances "stat" which had been put up as evidence that he had had plenty of opportunities etc, etc.

Of course a far more accurate portrayal of Williams strike rate would be based on minutes played rather than either games started or total appearances made ... so guess what, relaxing on the sofa on a quiet Sunday .... I have come up with the answer!

Williams has made 9 starts but only actually started and finished FOUR games, in four of the other five starts he was taken off just past the hour mark. Of his 12 substitute appearances, he has never got more than 30 minutes .... as we know, Nicho hardly ever (if ever?) makes any substitutions before the hour mark which is nearly always when he brings the first sub on, regardless of what the situation is in the game.

Anyway, in total WIlliams has clocked up 974 minutes of match action this season - which equates to the equivalent of just 10 full (90 minute matches) and 74 minutes into an eleventh. As we know he has scored THREE times in total, so like I say not too bad a return when compared to other strikers who have been given far, far more game time.

Ah - much more interesting use of stats and a more realistic way of assessing a strikers prowess. I meant to use a smilie on my previous post - I wasn't being as grumpy as it probably came across.

I guess, over a season, a similar return (over 46 games) would probably see him score around 13 goals. Not amazing but not dreadful either.

[tomogull]

Thought selection was poor Rooney and Chaney should have started.

Kevin Nicholson kept us in the Natonal League, he's been trying to run a professional football club on a shoestring budget and off the field he's got the takeover rumbling on which must be unsettling for him, Robbie Herrara and the players. I would never wish to criticise him. However, I do question some of his decisions yesterday. He brings in a 20 year old full back from Bournemouth (why?), sticks him right in the team instead of Rooney who I thought had a reasonably good game against Boreham. Lee is skinned by the Woking winger twice in the first five minutes and then when it happened again in the sixth minute, he hauls him down in the penalty area. Obvious penalty and we were on the back foot right from the start. It wasn't fair on Lee to be selected to start when he'd barely had chance to meet his team mates. He did have a better second half. It also wasn't fair on Rooney to be left out.

And I agree with Arcadia. In my opinion, young Sam should have started yesterday. He was one of our better players in the first half last week and I feel the more game time he is given, the better he will become. Okay, he didn't do too much yesterday when he eventually came on but by then the team was a bumbling shambles. Like him or not, Williams has to be given more game time as he really is the only striker we've got. Jamie Reid works hard but he doesn't anticipate balls played through to him. I don't think he had a shot on target all afternoon. Like Forever, I question why some of the players don't seem to be motivated and obviously are not enjoying their football. And yes, Brucie - on yesterday's showing, your opinion of Shaun Harrad is more accurate than mine ........ !! It was a truly woeful display and if performances don't improve, we shall be in a relegation scrap once again.

[nickbrod]

I think you'll find we are in a relegation scrap.

[CP Gull]

Its just that your bloody stupid message seems to lay all the blame at Nicholsons door for not playing Williams. Actually I saw him play twice last season and I was underwhelmed. I was actually quite disappointed that we signed him.

Its all very well saying get over it because Blissett has gone. Well he was about the only fit for purpose striker we had. Signing Harrad who is another useless carthorse isn't the answer either.

We were in a worse position last year than this but look at the team then. Back four of Berry ,Smith, Macdonald and Butler. Raachi, Rees, Ajala, Iffy Allen, Andre Wright - blimey there is no comparison.

This team has relegation all over it. I am not saying that we should get in a whole new team but GI are supposed to be the fecking owners after all - Either back Nico or sack him but at least do something

Ah Brucie, you are still missing my point, the whole Brett Williams thing was all a bit "tongue in cheek" .... obviously! But do I think he represents the best chance of scoring goals for us at the present time ... well, YES and do I think he has been underused this season? ... Well, YES again. I am not however saying that he is what we need as a replacement for Blissett - but, as yet, that person hasn't been signed!

If you had of attended some home games this season you would have seen Williams score fantastic individual goals in the friendly v WBA, and the home games against Barrow and Southport. His goal on Saturday was just an instinctive one - being in the right place for a tap in - the sort of goal that our other "strikers" seem incapable of scoring at the present time. Likewise, you cannot deny that Williams has done the business in the past for the likes of Aldershot and to a lesser extent FGR - at this level in the recent past - and maybe, just maybe, if the Manager had some confidence in him and gave him a regular start he might just be able to do the same for us. Will he get that chance under Nicho? Probably not. Would I be in the least bit surprised if he signed for someone else at this level and started banging goals in for fun again? Probably not, either!

Am I blaming Nicholson for everything ... NO .... But the fact is that he has signed (or re-signed) every single one of the current squad and clearly they aren't performing to the level HE expects them to - witness his post match rants after the last two home defeats. In my experience it is never a good sign to hear a Manager "turning" on his own players as it usually only ever ends up in them losing their job! If I was Nicho, I would be pretty worried about the current situation and he desperately needs a result over the next two or three games to turn things around. He is only likely to achieve that though if he can strengthen the squad - we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

As for the strength of the squad this time last year compared to the one we have now .... of course it is nowhere as near as good that is bleeding obvious to everyone! But it is (and was) the Managers job to try and replace the likes of MacDonald, Smith, Butler, Racchi and Blissett with players at least of an equal standard ... clearly he has struggled to do that and notwithstanding the fact that his budget isn't the greatest .... is it any worse than those of the likes of Woking and Boreham Wood - both of whom have done the double over us now! I don't imagine so.

[nickbrod]

It's Nicholson poor use of his initial budget for the season is the root of the problem. For example Lathrope, injured for most of last season at Aldershot, comes in and doubles his weekly wage. I would hazard a pretty good guess that the playing budget was sufficient to see us compete in the top half of the league.

[Southampton Gull]

The issue isn't that we are waiting for sonebody to realise that we need major financial surgery - the issue is that we don't have anybody WILLING to invest!!

We did have somebody willing to invest enough for a proper go at promotion next season but they were unwilling to cave in to Dave Phillips demands while he was busy trying to go down the administration route and that's the only reason GI stepped in when they did, solely to protect their loan. Interesting that Dave Phillips scarpers halfway across the world to escape the flak when he was seemingly skint and unable to even pay the wages. As Merse reminded us all, the season ticket offer, which I have always said was a ridiculous idea, has left us with virtually zero income for the rest of the season. Thea Bristow was paying the wage bill for some time, perhaps she might see the benefit of buying the freehold of Plainmoor to protect the tidy ground we already have and secure the legacy of her husband namely Bristows Bench. If I was in her shoes I'd be sorely tempted to do just that rather than throw good money after bad on the advice of a series of dimwits that have had her ear over the last several years.

[Southampton Gull]

It's Nicholson poor use of his initial budget for the season is the root of the problem. For example Lathrope, injured for most of last season at Aldershot, comes in and doubles his weekly wage. I would hazard a pretty good guess that the playing budget was sufficient to see us compete in the top half of the league.

Your guess is well wide of the mark.

[TUST_Member_Rob]

After nearly 40 years of loyal support for my local team, last season was the final straw for me.I just couldn't afford to attend any more. This week. my daughter decided to treat me to an afternoon at plainmoor as she thoughtfully felt it would do me good. Well I am sorry to say I've told her to keep her money in her purse from now on. I have never been so embarrassed by a display by a Torquay United team like I witnessed yesterday, totally bereft of basic skill, effort,understanding of each others whereabouts on the pitch, absolutely bloody awful.The sooner somebody realises this club needs major financial surgery the better.

Agree about that performance, players deserved to be boo'ed off after that, to go from 4-3 and 5-5 vs FGR to 0-1 and 1-2 against lesser teams is pathetic

[arcadia]

When I seen the team selected I thought straight away it was set up to lose. We need a striker that can play back to goal the team had a great Christmas and then we lose our way, why has Nicho tinkered with what he had, it did not make sense. If you've not got a strong midfield you put bodies in there which we did against FGR and last week but when the body was taken out we were woeful. Chaney gave the ball to the wide players in those games on Saturday the wide players had to go looking for the ball as the two midfielders did not find them.

[Dave]

The analysis in my opinion on Saturday's game does not need to be over complicated, not saying that anyone's opinion is right or wrong, for me it was a lot more simpler than team selection and team set up. Had the team selection and tactical set up been different Saturday, would we have seen a different result, in my opinion, no, we would not have.

The reason, it was clear to me at least eight, if not more of our team at the weekend were not mentally fit for this game, and if the team is not mentally prepared correctly for a game, it will not matter one jot, how physically fit they are, what level of ability they have, what the tactics are, it will not work.

Most teams can get away with having one or two in a match with out the right mindset, but when you have the whole team in that mode, you are big, big trouble, as I said in my post match reaction on the forum, this is an ever growing concern for me, which leads on to my next point.

Look money helps of course it does, there isn't a manager out there right now, who wouldn't want more money to spend, to a point however, and I mean to a point, player budgets can be irrelevant, after all FGR over the last few seasons have spent money on a team than a fair few clubs in the leagues above could only dream of, to fail, to gain promotion, last season Braintree made it to the play semi-finals spending probably less than we did, it is of course, easy to over or under achieve.

The players that were signed over the summer were all with in the budget, so it should have been clear to all that Nicho did not have a top eight budget at his disposal, and there is no arguing this, the Lathrope signing was beyond lazy on Nicho's part, no one would buy a car for £500 with cracked engine block and expect to drive it to work every day of the year, because that's all you can afford, you'd have a good look and buy the best option you find, to suit your budget.

But the players signed suggest Nicho's budget was not a relegation one either, there is more than enough in the squad to comfortably be able to avoid the drop, yet we're in a relegation scrap, don't care what anyone says, there is something wrong in the dressing room, on the field right now, our club is as broken, as it is, off the field.

[arcadia]

What went on in the Summer is history what you've got to ask yourself could you have got more out of the squad that played on Saturday and I believe I could have.
Players lost confidence in each other through mistakes that were made and I'm not blaming the player it was the managers inexperience in selecting the lad. The formation was changed leaving the side more open and we could not pass the ball.
We were set up badly from the cross when they scored Moore had nobody covering the back of the goal it was an open invitation.It was a shambles!