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After the Bank Holiday horror show I read the following and it made me think of my team who I have supported all my life.

"Just like a team is only as strong as its weakest link your results will depend on how good your systems are".

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations we fall to the level of our training"

"You do not rise to the level of your goals you fall to the level of your systems"

Honestly how could these quotes be more appropriate to Torquay United.

No doubt I will get flack for suggesting we need to review training but season after season I see the same faults repeating themselves over and over again.

Gary can I come to training please just to watch. I am a season ticket holder.

It was interesting to hear Ryan Dickson, who was co-commentating on Radio Devon, say that GJ was OK as a coach and excellent as a man manager.

Perhaps his coaching tactics are a little wanting this season ?

This is NOT a GJ bashing comment....just a thought.

I think that the squad we have this season is nowhere good enough to challenge for promotion. We have signed 2 Goalkeepers who in my opinion are not as good as the 2 we had last season, even then they were not that good. Our defence has always been a shambles since GJ walked through the door and the forward line with few exceptions has been average for years. The midfield has been OK, Asa Hall, Amarni Little and CLE have played well.

If you look at CLE for example, at 24 years of age why is he playing non league football as is Andrews. Little is probably our best player but towards the end of last season and the start of this, he's been awful.

With the likes of Wrexham, Stockport and Notts County splashing the cash, we havn't got a chance in hell of a top 4 finish and i expect mid table at best.

I believe dawlishmatt your criticisms are mainly aimed at the wrong target, we are not a buying or a spending club,there are very good reasons for that, 2400 through the gates does not pay half the bills. we solely rely on a man who admits to having no love for football or Torquay but continues to pay the bills, but has every right to say no more. Contrary to many we are a small club and perhaps last season we flattered to deceive. I am surprised we held onto to so many of last seasons squad,those that did leave did it for purely financial reasons in what is a short career.. Those that have arrived seem to be ok, nothing special, but if all things are even they can do a job in this league. It is not the first time I have heard comments on Johnsons ability or lack of it as a coach, he is very old school, actually he is a ancient old school but that does not mean he does not know how to send a team out to win. in Downes we have a clone of Johnson so there is nothing new to offer there. In this absurdly stupid season where a lot of clubs have invested vast amounts betting on promotion before the restrictions on spending come in next season I will take mid table.

culmstockgull wrote: ↑31 Aug 2021, 18:42 I believe dawlishmatt your criticisms are mainly aimed at the wrong target, we are not a buying or a spending club,there are very good reasons for that, 2400 through the gates does not pay half the bills. we solely rely on a man who admits to having no love for football or Torquay but continues to pay the bills, but has every right to say no more. Contrary to many we are a small club and perhaps last season we flattered to deceive. I am surprised we held onto to so many of last seasons squad,those that did leave did it for purely financial reasons in what is a short career.. Those that have arrived seem to be ok, nothing special, but if all things are even they can do a job in this league. It is not the first time I have heard comments on Johnsons ability or lack of it as a coach, he is very old school, actually he is a ancient old school but that does not mean he does not know how to send a team out to win. in Downes we have a clone of Johnson so there is nothing new to offer there. In this absurdly stupid season where a lot of clubs have invested vast amounts betting on promotion before the restrictions on spending come in next season I will take mid table.

culmstockgull, i am not criticising anyone least of all the manager. I see us as a good/average team at this level and until we get an owner who is prepared to splash the cash, it is unlikely we will get promoted in the foreseeable future. In saying this, Uncle Clarke has done a fantastic job in turning this club around but we have to be realistic. Torquay United are a good non league club.

Dawlishmatt - sorry but you are talking utter tosh - 'defence a shambles' - third best defensive record in the League last season, less than a goal a game conceded.
'average forward line' -. third best goals total in the League - 68 in 42 games - what exactly do you want ? some 'supporters' are hard to please.
Ok this season has not started well, but let's give it a bit longer than 3 games , as someone else said , we had a terrible start in 2008 and still went up.

desperado wrote: ↑31 Aug 2021, 21:02 Dawlishmatt - sorry but you are talking utter tosh - 'defence a shambles' - third best defensive record in the League last season, less than a goal a game conceded.
'average forward line' -. third best goals total in the League - 68 in 42 games - what exactly do you want ? some 'supporters' are hard to please.
Ok this season has not started well, but let's give it a bit longer than 3 games , as someone else said , we had a terrible start in 2008 and still went up.

Cant believe we even have a thread on the subject of GJ abilities or more to the point lack of, but thank you Desperado for putting things into perspective.

desperado wrote: ↑31 Aug 2021, 21:02 Dawlishmatt - sorry but you are talking utter tosh - 'defence a shambles' - third best defensive record in the League last season, less than a goal a game conceded.
'average forward line' -. third best goals total in the League - 68 in 42 games - what exactly do you want ? some 'supporters' are hard to please.
Ok this season has not started well, but let's give it a bit longer than 3 games , as someone else said , we had a terrible start in 2008 and still went up.

You can not be serious, comparing the side today with that of 2008.

Buckles side was full of keen eager players who were fighting for their places. From 1-11, they knew they had to perform or they were out. All were superbly fit.

Have we got a Tom Sills, Elliott Benyon, Chris Hargreaves or even a Danny Stevens? The answer is maybe.....but they are never fully fit to find out.

It is incredible, beyond belief that we now have so called full time professional players, who can not play two games in a week.

Player recruitment is clearly the problem but with Family connections. we are stuck with him and nothing will change.

When you looked at the Woking players up against ours, we looked puny. They were 6'4" and we were 5'10" it looked a mismatch and so it proved.

I look forward to a 2008 style revival but I can not envisage how, with these players. Gary J needs to change it quickly, it looks like a season of mid table at best. Good job, only three get relegated and Dover should be one to go down, so we need to avoid the other two places.

What an insult to our Promotion winning side. to compare them to this rabble. I await the improvement, starting at Maidenhead on Saturday.

portugull wrote: ↑31 Aug 2021, 15:06 After the Bank Holiday horror show I read the following and it made me think of my team who I have supported all my life.

"Just like a team is only as strong as its weakest link your results will depend on how good your systems are".

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations we fall to the level of our training"

"You do not rise to the level of your goals you fall to the level of your systems"

Honestly how could these quotes be more appropriate to Torquay United.

No doubt I will get flack for suggesting we need to review training but season after season I see the same faults repeating themselves over and over again.

Gary can I come to training please just to watch. I am a season ticket holder.

Why on earth would an experienced manager allow a fan into training? He keeps his cards very close
To his chest as we all know. Each player would have a short medium and long term development plan and targets set
In training. Just one visit wouldn’t allow anyone to appreciate the complex world of elite level coaching. ( speaking from experience as an international Boxing coach)
Why we are all frustrated at the start, it is just that, a start. Give the man some credit. As fans we
Really don’t know best.

Gary Johnson is the best manager in the division. He was a c88thair away from adding another promotion to his CV last season. GJ has more nouse in his fingernail than some of the more vocal forum members here. He will sort out the problems and turn it around. Yes, we have not started well and listening to the game on Monday was tortuous. Armani is a quality player and will come good with our support. The last thing he needs is terrace tw*ts on his case. Jake must be fit soon and will bolster the left side with Moxey. Connor needs some game time to get back to his best, and Asa won't be long before he's back in control.
We are missing the fluid, fast attacking game we had with Nemane and Whitfield in midfield, but it will come. As long as we're flirting with the play-offs ready for a run at the right time, we'll be fine. With the money being chucked about by a few teams, we were never going to be as competitive this year as last. Play-offs are the target and there is a long way to go yet.

Davethegull, couple of points, one, I am not a terrace T--T as you have identified anyone who has legitimate concerns about a players performance. Against Woking it would have honest to complain about most of the team,they were hopeless. My observations are based on numerous games and not just this season.Little was a good player once and maybe will be again,there is no arguement he has talent but either the injury he had last season was worse and more long term or of a nature that will now always restrict his abilities. in which case this would certainly get the fans off his back,this was a player that in the past would shoot from any distance and angle but I cannot remember the last time he had the confidence to have a shot. My belief is his head in not where it should be, did we receive an offer for him that we turned down which would have benefited him, does he wish to play closer to London, who knows. Having been at both altrincham and woking games plus the pre season games I will accept that everyone has an off day, but he now struggles to make even the simplest decisions correctly. his free kicks and corners are all over the place, A radio commentary gives the action, it doesnt reflect the reality of players who look fed up or constantly out of position or just looking disinterested, that is Little at the moment, on saturday he had a simple chance for someone supposedly of his talent to get one consolation goal, he totally fluffed it. I just cannot accept that any manager other than Johnson would persist in playing him if we had a half fit alternative, I sit in Bristows and cannot hear the comments from the pop side which I understand are usually more vociferous than those of us that sit but believe me he was getting stick from all sides of the stand.

How is giving him stick going to help him recapture his form ?
Re my previous post I don't recall comparing the sides of now and 2008, merely said don't judge or write off our season after 3 games

I agree with Dawlishmatt - we have no chance of promotion but thats hardly Johnsons fault There are teams spending a fortune.

Unfortunately the chance of promotion was last season, and due to some ill luck as much as anything else it didn't happen. I would be more worried about relegation this year.

It wasn't great against Woking but as well as poor performances everything else is going against us. Chiori Johnsons booking was ludicrous - it asn't even a foul. Lets hope we can turn it around.

Forest gull I have been to Training at Seale Hayne but I get permission first!!

Fair enough