Derbies

[holsten]

So, with Argyle getting relegated today, there are a few gauranteed derbies for Torquay United next season.

If we go up into League 1
Exeter
Yeovil
Bournemouth (play-off depending)

If we stay in League 2
Plymouth
Swindon
Bristol Rovers
Cheltenham
Oxford???

It looks like if we stay down we'll have more derbies to attend! However, there are quite a few London-based clubs in L1 so potentially some good days out there in Charlton, Leyton Orient and Colchester.

So which ones would you love to see happen and which ones have brought the best memories about in the past?

[RussianGull]

I don't want there to be any until 2012/2013 as I won't be in the country to see them.

Can't beat a derby with Exeter though.

[Plymouth Gull]

Not too fussed if we don't go up personally.

[HRG]

Agree with Nick. If anything a load of close, sourthernish teams will provide greater profit to the club which should prove beneficial in seasons to come.

[Parry]

Going up would be a step in the right direction and if we are looking to progress as a club then promotion is imperative. You don't fancy a trips to hillsborough, brammal lane,the valley, Not only that but we could have a chance of being the highest placed devon side.

[Plymouth Gull]

Parry, fully understand what you're saying there. However, I feel with our young squad that are still learning - Kee, O'Kane, Lathrope, LRT, Halpin, Macklin, the list goes on, that should we go up, we'd need to improve the squad a fair bit in order to stay up. The difference between the top sides in L1 is fairly big in comparison to the bottom sides. Yes, trips to those sort of grounds would be nice, but for each of those luxury trips, you have Hartlepool/Rochdale/Bury/Chesterfield/Oldham/Carlisle etc. All long, expensive journeys.

Last season would have been fantastic to be in L1, huge number of southern sides. Its looking like L2 will be much more southernly based next year, and in a way, I would rather be down here for it. It'll be nice to have more than 1/2 games within 150 miles for once, and personally I've never witnessed a Torquay-Plymouth league match so that'll be a new experience. I'd rather go to Argyle than City as the ground is better, and the fact that we have Argyle, Bristol Rovers and Swindon all down means that's 3 sold out away ends already. Add Walsall, Oxford, and then the teams that come down with something to play for, then there could be some excellent followings at Plainmoor next season.

Another thing for me is the Grandstand. If we stay down, the chances of selling out are more, when Plymouth and co come to town. If we can ask the FL for all localish games to be February onwards, then we can have our full capacity back, aswell as being rid of the crap stand.

Going up would be a step up obviously, but for now, I feel that if we can keep this group of players together, we could be a real force in this division next year. I feel we aren't ready for League 1 just yet, and it would take a fair bit of improvement to get some more experienced heads in to help the youth in our squad.

My best case scenario is to get the playoffs, get to Old Trafford, that way we've earnt a fair bit but then I really wouldn't mind losing as much, knowing we'll have some decent away games next year.

[Dave]

I agree totaly with parry,promotion is vital we have some of the best young footballers our club has ever had ,they will not want to stick around if the club/fans have no ambition,Preston,Sheffield utd and wednesday,Charlton,Exeter and the list goes on,more importantly we will be in a division higher than Argyle ,who would not want that?

I can see Swindon,Rovers,and depending on whether they get a takeover Argyle going straight back up next season,with the likely hood of our ground only holding 4000 there will be no benefit from these clubs visiting plainmoor next season,to me its about seeing the bigger picture,as Parry says if our club is to progress it must push on to league 1,should the team fail this season,then next season must be 'project promotion'otherwise kiss goodbye to Buckle and a good part of the team.

Exeter and Yeovil in league 1next season,Swindon,rovers and Cheltenham can have a love fest with Argyle in good old league 2.

[HRG]

Absolutely agree with Nick, I couldn't add anything more. Except I don't see Macklin's future with us.

*Actually in answer to what Forever said about our youth graduates not wanting to hang on. It may tempt them to hang on if we go up a division so soon, but a League Two with so many teams likely to bring a good crowd brings the club more profit and in turn more money to spend on signings and greater promotion prospects next season with a greater likelihood of staying up. They'd be wise to hang on with us a season or two.

[Dave]

Firstly Nick you can not expect or ask the F/L for anything,they will not factor in building work at Plainmoor when they do the fixtures next season,you can see that by the fact they left the second Exeter/Plymouth match to end of the season rather than giving them a christmas double header.

Every one is entitled to there opinion,however i can not understand the lack of ambition you have strive to improve and move forward allways,distance /traveling time to away match's does not come into it,this cautious we not ready lets look again next year approach is what sent us spirerling towards the conference in the first place and will again.

Nick you are right to talk about our young squad,however they are ambitiuos young players who will not want to stay with us unless the club demonstrate's a willingness to push forward,i also do not understand how you work out that being in league 2 next will give us more sell outs,have you any idea how many fans the likes of Preston,Sheffield wed/utd,Huddersfield,Charlton,Yoevil and Exeter etc,etc will bring to plainmoor league 1 will give us maybe 8 plus sell matchs,league 2 no more than 3.

All season long many have pointed out low wages and high unemployment for our low gates,i on the other dissagreed,and said it was down to the product on the pitch give the fans a product they can believe and they will come back.

The jobs market and wages in this area have not changed,the difference was Stanley Robinson tomlin were brought in,the team started playing great football scoring goals and winning,and what happened to our gates they have nearly doubled over these last few weeks.

Yes promotion to league 1 will mean bigger contracts for the players and will cost,however the club income will more than double aswell,my message to all at tufc is get your head out of the sand and stop thinking small,there is more than a few clubs no bigger than us doing a very good job of holding there own in league 1,if you want to keep these gates up around te 4000+ then give fans V-F-M ambition,ambition and a bit more ambition the only way forward.

[basil75]

I'd take promotion out of this league every time, no matter what.

No matter how good the squad is, you're always looking over your shoulder in this division - anyone can beat anyone - and as a result it's not out of the question that we'd be back at the wrong side of the table next year. Plus a play-off final will no doubt increase interest in Buckle.

I'd rather Buckle moved on while we're in League One and can afford to drop and regroup if necessary, opposed to league 2 where we can't and risk a manager transition seeing us slide towards the trap door. I suspect Buckle could take some of our squad with him as well, leaving us completely .

We're not in a position to be picky about progression - we've got to grab it when we can.

[Parry]

Also, winning promotion at old trafford would be one of the great events in TUFC history. It's these moments of glory and achievement that make us football fans. Southend was the best day i've ever had in terms of football. We came back down the year after but it was worth it for the memories I've taken from that great day.

[Plymouth Gull]

Can you not, Dave? I'm sure I've seen somewhere you can make a special request for something like that to be considered before the fixtures come out - Blackpool managed it in August. Admittedly that was only for one game, but surely it can't hurt to take a request into consideration before the fixture lists are compiled.

There was no way they'd have put Exeter-Plymouth on Boxing Day/New Years Day because of the trouble it will have caused. Anyway, that doesn't seem to happen in the league these days, as we would have had Cheltenham both times - when infact we had Hereford and Oxford. Sure, they try and keep it localish, but they've never had two games so close to each other - that was only the BSP.

Maybe it seems like I'm lacking ambition here, I guess I'm thinking more on a personal level when talking about the distances! It'd sure help to reduce the cost for some away games though, having some closer, as you'd expect. When did we have the 'we aren't ready yet' approach before we went to the Conference. The time we went up under Leroy - I felt we were ready. We had the 20+ goal striker, we had the solid spine and some fantastic players. We should have successfully made the step up but losing DG was a big blow. We are in a much better position financially than we were then, we have a much better infrastructure, but the difference between the two squads is that the squad in 03/04 was all fairly experienced. It was more experience than it was youth, while this time around, it's alot more youth-based.

Indeed, the current crop are ambitious - you'd expect them to be, but I think that the club have already shown willingness to push on. We only just survived last season, now we're close to finishing in the top 7 - surely thats progress enough? Maybe I was being a bit over the top regarding sell outs, although the capacity will just be 4,000 odd. I'm quite sure we'd fill 75% of that should we start well. The Club are a club moving in the direction, no doubt about it - I just feel another season at this level, and trying to keep the crop of players together, as they are all learning the ways of the game at this level, will help no end. Sure, they're are a couple who could/probably will move on, but if we can keep it together then I feel we could be a force to be reckoned with.

[Fletch]

More holes than Stockports defence.

Every one is entitled to there opinion,however i can not understand the lack of ambition you have strive to improve and move forward allways,distance /traveling time to away match's does not come into it,this cautious we not ready lets look again next year approach is what sent us spirerling towards the conference in the first place and will again.

Nonsense. Bugger all to do with it. Our inability to stay in L1 was due to insufficient income generated. MB, rightly or wrongly, was not prepared to keep sinking money into the club. The cost cutting (resulting in a lesser standard of player, no reserve team, no youth set up) was what caused the downward spiral to the conference, not a "cautious ,were not ready" approach. How many time over the last 20 years have we been either on the fringes of promotion or relegation? Its hardly a new situation that we found ourselves in 4 years ago.

Nick you are right to talk about our young squad,however they are ambitiuos young players who will not want to stay with us unless the club demonstrate's a willingness to push forward,i also do not understand how you work out that being in league 2 next will give us more sell outs,have you any idea how many fans the likes of Preston,Sheffield wed/utd,Huddersfield,Charlton,Yoevil and Exeter etc,etc will bring to plainmoor league 1 will give us maybe 8 plus sell matchs,league 2 no more than 3.

8 sell out matches? Dream on. The 2 Sheffields/Charlton/Exeter/Yeovil/Hudderfield or Bournemouth i agree with, however away support will be limited to around 1200 max until the stand is rebuilt. Thats not going to make much difference to the finances, particularly in mid winter when our home support invariably dips to below 2000

All season long many have pointed out low wages and high unemployment for our low gates,i on the other dissagreed,and said it was down to the product on the pitch give the fans a product they can believe and they will come back. The jobs market and wages in this area have not changed,the difference was Stanley Robinson tomlin were brought in,the team started playing great football scoring goals and winning,and what happened to our gates they have nearly doubled over these last few weeks.

Every season our gates jump up for the last 4 or 5 home games. Thats because there is usually something riding on it. Feel free to look back at the figures for proof.

Yes promotion to league 1 will mean bigger contracts for the players and will cost,however the club income will more than double aswell,my message to all at tufc is get your head out of the sand and stop thinking small,there is more than a few clubs no bigger than us doing a very good job of holding there own in league 1,if you want to keep these gates up around te 4000+ then give fans V-F-M ambition,ambition and a bit more ambition the only way forward.

Dream on. Club income will not double. The last two trips to the league above only resulted in meagre rises in attendance resulting in drastic cost cutting. Even D&R have a higher (slightly) attendance than us this season. Again, look back at the figures for proof.

You confuse lack of ambition with a structured plan of development. You should wake up and smell the coffee instead of living in a fantasy world.
As Nick points out, we are progressing. Bottom third last season, top third this season.
With an increased capacity at the end of next season I would expect to see a serious promotion challenge that can lead on to L1 consolidation, the same as last season in L2.

[bixieupnorth]

def go up for me, bigger gates, clubs, more exposure, more money from league pot, plus living in yorkshire i get a whole lot of northern games to go to!!

[tommygull]

I know the arguments for and against promotion but it has to bhe the fundamental aim opf every club to get promoted and that's what makes football so competitive. If clubs were happy where they were then it would be a pointless waste of time. Promotion for me!!