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with regards to the keeper and 'hand-balling' the ball all the time, i would like to point out, it is NOT handball, because the ball was released before he exited the area, yes were all p****d off that the scum have come down once again and beat us, but it really got on my nerves when people kept shouting it all round me when it clearly wasn't a handball

tufctillidie wrote:with regards to the keeper and 'hand-balling' the ball all the time, i would like to point out, it is NOT handball, because the ball was released before he exited the area, yes were all p****d off that the scum have come down once again and beat us, but it really got on my nerves when people kept shouting it all round me when it clearly wasn't a handball

Was that where the chanting seemed to be a six second count followed by handball?
I think the 6 second rule is still there for keepers holding the ball. Rarely gets enforced though..

I thought (although I maybe wrong) that the ball was deemed to be still in the keepers possession when in the air between the hand and the foot when taking a goal kick and that was the reason you weren't allowed to play it at that time?

Dave_Pougher wrote:I thought (although I maybe wrong) that the ball was deemed to be still in the keepers possession when in the air between the hand and the foot when taking a goal kick and that was the reason you weren't allowed to play it at that time?

Wasnt there someone nodded the ball out of the keepers hand a few years ago and scored? I think it stood because the keeper had to have both hands on the ball to be deemed in possession?
Having said that, I think its usually classed as obstruction if you impede the keeper when hes trying to kick it from hand.

Father Jack wrote: Wasnt there someone nodded the ball out of the keepers hand a few years ago and scored? I think it stood because the keeper had to have both hands on the ball to be deemed in possession?
Having said that, I think its usually classed as obstruction if you impede the keeper when hes trying to kick it from hand.

It was Andy Crosby of Forest who headed the ball out of the keepers hands. If the keeper doesn't have both hands on the ball it is classed as a 'free' ball for anyone to try and win.

Father Jack wrote: Was that where the chanting seemed to be a six second count followed by handball?
I think the 6 second rule is still there for keepers holding the ball. Rarely gets enforced though..

No it wasn't when they were counting to six, i know this rule is still in play, it was when the ball was in mid flight in the first half when he crossed the line and kicked it. as people have said it is classed as a free ball if there is less then 2 hands on the ball, thus meaning when he releases the ball he is no longer in possession of it, hence why it is not handball as he crosses the line.

austrianandygull wrote: It was Andy Crosby of Forest who headed the ball out of the keepers hands. If the keeper doesn't have both hands on the ball it is classed as a 'free' ball for anyone to try and win.

That may have been true once, but has not been the case for a long time. I remember controversy in a Derby-Man U game about ten years ago when Malcolm Christie kicked the ball away as Barthez fumbled a shot and only managed to get one hand back on it. Even Sir Alex thought it should've counted but the ref rightly disallowed it as by the laws of the game he had it in his possession and cannot be challenged.

From a Fifa rules document: :rules:
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
When a goalkeeper has gained possession of the ball with his hands, he cannot be challenged by an opponent.

112
Offences committed by goalkeepers
A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more
than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface
(e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
When a goalkeeper has gained possession of the ball with his hands, he cannot
be challenged by an opponent.
A goalkeeper is not permitted to touch the ball with his hand inside his own
penalty area in the following circumstances:
• if he handles the ball again after it has been released from his possession
and has not touched any other player:
– the goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball by touching
it with any part of his hands or arms except if the ball rebounds
accidentally from him, e.g. after he has made a save
– possession of the ball includes the goalkeeper deliberately parrying the
ball
• if he touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to
him by a team-mate
• if he touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a
throw-in taken by a team-mate

This appears to be the six second rule,although rarely enforced by officials.

Offences committed against goalkeepers
• It is an offence for a player to prevent a goalkeeper from releasing the ball
from his hands• A player must be penalised for playing in a dangerous manner if he kicks or
attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing
it
• It is an offence to restrict the movement of the goalkeeper by unfairly
impeding him, e.g. at the taking of a corner kick

I assume this is why Eunan was booked in the 2nd half.

Quite interesting this,, so,,, looking at all the rules above when the keeper releases the ball for a goal kick is it is it not in his possession? And if so is that deemed to be hand ball if the "in the air" takes palce outside the penalty area ?

These rules are so contradicting. The goal keeper is in possession if he bounces or throws the ball in the air..... really?
Either it is in his hands or not, if the ball is out of hands then surely free for all (as long as the player has not challenged him in a dangerous manner).

There should be a rule..... a player cannot be tackled if he is dribbling the ball (as he is in possession).

There are loads of rules not being applied. The other day on highlights some player got given a free kick, he took a quick kick but basically aimed for the person who decided to stand in front of the ball. The player taking the free kick got a yellow for what looked like unsporting behaviour?

Still not sure why refs at the lower leagues is not at the same level as Premiership. Either the ref is good enough for proffessional football or they are not, no matter if it is league 2 or EUFA. Yes there is more money as you go up the leagues, but the responsability of the ref and the fairness is the same across all. If a ref is "relegated" from Premiership, then get rid off them into the conference, we don't bloody want them.

You would think so Dave. Seems that the Crawley keeper should have been pulled up, at least twice in the 2nd half, for handball, as it ( The Ball) is considered to be in his possesion when it is between his hand and the ground, "While in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing in in the air" Thats why forwards are not permitted to try and "nick" the ball when the keeper tosses it up to take the kick. However, how many officials would bother to call it to the refs attention, especially when you are only talking about the keeper going 3/4 inches outside his area. As Paul has said, the officials are just not good enough at league 2 level. The rules are the rules, regardless of which level you are playing at...World Cup or Sunday park football. :rules:

Awayday wrote:These rules are so contradicting. The goal keeper is in possession if he bounces or throws the ball in the air..... really?
Either it is in his hands or not, if the ball is out of hands then surely free for all (as long as the player has not challenged him in a dangerous manner).

There should be a rule..... a player cannot be tackled if he is dribbling the ball (as he is in possession).

There are loads of rules not being applied. The other day on highlights some player got given a free kick, he took a quick kick but basically aimed for the person who decided to stand in front of the ball. The player taking the free kick got a yellow for what looked like unsporting behaviour?

Still not sure why refs at the lower leagues is not at the same level as Premiership. Either the ref is good enough for proffessional football or they are not, no matter if it is league 2 or EUFA. Yes there is more money as you go up the leagues, but the responsability of the ref and the fairness is the same across all. If a ref is "relegated" from Premiership, then get rid off them into the conference, we don't bloody want them.

Yes, of course Paul, which is why Wayne Rooney plays in the same division as Rene Howe, because footballers are wither good enough or not, regardless of whether they are in L2 or the Premiership...

Come on mate, you're better than that.

Agree with the top half though.

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote: Yes, of course Paul, which is why Wayne Rooney plays in the same division as Rene Howe, because footballers are wither good enough or not, regardless of whether they are in L2 or the Premiership...
Come on mate, you're better than that.

Agree with the top half though.

Matt.

Sorry Matt. Dont agree. Of course there are different levels of players, some are, obviously, better than others, but why should the level of officiating not be the same wherever you play. Like I said rules are rules there is no getting away from that. They should apply to every level of the game.

The rules don't differ, the officials do. There is a reason that some referees are in the Premier League and some are in L2, and it is exactly the same reason that some players are in the Premier League and some are in L2. The game is exactly the same, just hacking a pigs bladder round a field, in just the same way that the rules are exactly the same.

You know yourself, when we have had dislodged Premier League referees that they are just better. Twice in two games last season it happened and, in those games, there were, maybe, a dozen free kicks awarded in total.

Matt.