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St Johnstone v Motherwell today, not exactly Celtic and Rangers but nontheless 4th against 3rd so important for them.

Well the public didnt think so as the crowd was a massive 2885 :Oops: take into account that Motherwell had 409 of that. The tv money obviously keeps them going. I dont follow them but they must have some decent players to be 4th and must be paying them more than they can afford. The crowd would have been below 2000 if it had been Dunfermline!!

and we moan about us getting gates like that

The cost is ridiculous for starters. In 16 months living in Aberdeen, I've been to see them once, and that was largely just to tick the ground off. £23 to watch Aberdeen vs St. Johnstone, Dunfermilne, St. Mirren etc is far overpriced for the level of football. Aberdeen are probably a similar quality to Torquay, so it's a huge outlay to watch average players. A season ticket is £600.

That's before you get into the fact that the league is meaningless for both those teams before it even starts, and the dismal state that Scottish football is in, which is an essay in itself.

Scottish football seems to be going more down the pan than ever before. I'll admit to not following it very closely, but neither Celtic or Rangers actually qualified for a European competition - Celtic had to be reprieved after FC Sion (I think) were kicked out, can't remember what for. The fact that those two didn't make an impact in Europe means less money for the League and such - it's a downward spiral unless Celtic/Rangers can bring in some money through getting far in Europe.

I honestly believe if you chucked Celtic and Rangers into the English Premier League they would get relegated. They would be 'okay' championship teams IMO. All you have to look at is how mediocre and 'past it' striker Robbie Keane went there for half a season and set Scottish football alight, yet in the Prem he either wasn't playing, or wasn't playing well.

stevegull wrote:I honestly believe if you chucked Celtic and Rangers into the English Premier League they would get relegated. They would be 'okay' championship teams IMO. All you have to look at is how mediocre and 'past it' striker Robbie Keane went there for half a season and set Scottish football alight, yet in the Prem he either wasn't playing, or wasn't playing well.

I'm a bit of a part time Celtic fan, and go three or four times a season. Standards have dropped considerably in recent years especially since the Setanta fiasco, but there was always a bit of a myth about how poor Celtic were in comparison to English sides- I have seen them beat Liverpool,Blackburn,Manchester United and probably a few more, along with running the likes of Barcelona - including all their stars- very very close. Robbie Keane never set the SPL alight, at the time it seemed a great signing, but it never really worked out, though I will concede that John Hartson was excellent up there compared to his limited success in England.

If they were getting the rewards being dished out to Clubs like Stoke, Fulham, Wigan etc does anyone really believe that Celtic and Rangers wouldn't be knocking on the door of the top four in our league? With their fanbase they'd easily be able to fund a tilt at qualifying for Europe and they would bring extra revenue to other clubs with large away followings etc.

Celtic - the first British team to win the European Champions Cup (1967), beat Inter Milan 2-1.

See yoo Jimmy !

The days of wee Jimmy Johnstone, quality little player.

gasrex wrote: I'm a bit of a part time Celtic fan, and go three or four times a season. Standards have dropped considerably in recent years especially since the Setanta fiasco, but there was always a bit of a myth about how poor Celtic were in comparison to English sides- I have seen them beat Liverpool,Blackburn,Manchester United and probably a few more, along with running the likes of Barcelona - including all their stars- very very close. Robbie Keane never set the SPL alight, at the time it seemed a great signing, but it never really worked out, though I will concede that John Hartson was excellent up there compared to his limited success in England.

Fairplay gasrex, i take your point, they have pulled off some great results against some of Europe's elite.

Aside from Celtic and Rangers then, do you believe any of the rest of the SPL could cut it in the English Premier League? Although I only really see their football on T.V, i very much doubt they could avoid the drop in the Prem...

Celtic and Rangers would probably be mid to bottom in the prem. The rest would struggle in the Championship IMO. Look at someone like Connor Sammon at Wigan, he could play every week for ten years and still never bag a prem goal. He is the epitome of someone coming from a scottish club other than the old firm and playing like a bag of sand all the time. Scottish football is great if you follow it and live in Scotland, i don't so i find it grim. Seeing games live on telly makes me cringe when its like Falkirk v St Mirren or something. Its park football masquerading as top flight SPL. Its hilarious!

stevegull wrote: Fairplay gasrex, i take your point, they have pulled off some great results against some of Europe's elite.

Aside from Celtic and Rangers then, do you believe any of the rest of the SPL could cut it in the English Premier League? Although I only really see their football on T.V, i very much doubt they could avoid the drop in the Prem...

Probably not, if I'm honest. I haven't been up yet this season, the Old Firm game this month will be my first, so I can only go by what I have seen on TV. Kilmarnock and St Johnstone have both looked good at times, but as to whether they survive a season in the EPL- I don't think so. Hibs have been awful, and I'm hoping they improve in time for New Years Day, because I'm going to watch them in the Edinburgh derby.
It doesn't help that glory seekers- like me!- support Celtic or Rangers rather than their local side. Me and my lad went to the Lanarkshire derby between Hamilton and Motherwell last New Year, and despite the grounds being about 2/3 miles apart the crowd barely reached 3000.

I know what you mean Gasrex. It doesn't really help clubs like Hamilton, Kilmarnock, St Mirren, Motherwell, Dumbarton and many others who are a stones throw from Glasgy.