TorquayFans.com | Torquay United Fans Forum

Following the thread that mentioned really sad scenes at Plainmoor on Saturday I feel a new mindset has to be called for among certain supporters
It doesn't matter a jot what we think of a players performance we are not the manager in charge.
it doesn't matter much how they play on the pitch there is very little we can do to make them play better. Bar of course making a superb atmosphere to play to.
It doesn't matter a jot who is or isn't in the team. We don't pick it and so have no influence over who plays or sits on the bench.

What does matter is how we voice our criticism of who plays and what happens on the pitch

For the uninitated of you who may read this forum but have yet to notice where we are in the league. WE ARE SECOND

THATS NOT QUITE FIRST BUT NEXT TO. now I know that first is the prefered position but how many of you can tell me you have seen Torquay in second before this season.
I know what it is to have someone constantly moan about your not doing well enough for them. I know what it is to achieve your best and yet to be told that it was not good enough. time and time again

Well for all you whelks out there who are into that sort of thing. Can I please politely suggest that you go off and find another team to support who deserve your richly uneducated blessings where they will be no doubt apreciated.

Whether we or You like it or not. Martin ling is our Manager. Shaun Taylor os his second in command.
They got the job because they knew what they were talking about and had done it and been there before.
If you moaners have the same credentials and qualifications then you would have got the job had you put in for it. But you didn't. You just liked to sit back and snipe.

Every time we suggest a player is rubbish, shite or a miriad of other descriptive words we are not just putting doubt as to their qualification for being in the team. we are suggesting that Mr Ling is not qualified to name the team week on week.

Well with all respect I think that all you moaners out there are talking through your arses. Usualy It comes with large helpings of Beer and Curry. Don't bother with dragging out the usual old rubbish about we pays our money. It still doesn't give you the right to belittle a guy publicly who is doing his best on the pitch.

This forum is the place for that and even then some of us will get fed up with listening to your drivel.
We would rather find outselves living rough in the local park toilet with the druggies than have a night out with the likes of those who would do to others what they wouldn't like done to them. (well may be a little strong But you get my drift)

Whether you want to take note of it or not. Torquay United are near enough top of the league and still stand a chance of the Championship. Swindon can still slip up after todays let down at Wombley. We can catch them. Even if we don't and finish second it will eclipse the achievment of leroy in 2004. It will be the best performance by half of any United team for many a year.

Martin Ling picks the team week in week out. Shaun Taylor trains them week in week out. They know our players far far better than any of us. They pick them because they know they will deliver what they are asked to deliver.

To Doubt Martins choice of players this season is to doubt that you will wake up each morning or doubt we will still have air to breath. To belittle the players vocaly in the terrace is to say you know better and can do better.

Your job whether you want to acknowledge it or not is to back our players at Torquay United to the hilt.
Your job is to cheer the players untill your hoarse ( my throat is probably suffering from that now)
Your Job is to accept that the Gaffer knows what he is doing (is there not enough evidence of that already)

We are second in league two. there are 22 teams below us. Bristol Rovers, a team who were lauded as being championship material in the making are so far behind I need binoculars to see where they are.
We have never had it so good.
We couldn't do better with what we have at our disposal if we tried. Not that we need to that much.

Can you not for one minute in your miserable lives just be thankfull that you have a team worth shouting about. Can't you be thankfull for one minute that your team is as near top as is possible at the moment. Can you not for once in your lives consider the wondefull achievement that all the Club have put ourselves in.

And finaly. Can't you dumb idiots see that by abusing a player so publicly denies him the chance to make the best of himself as his mind will start to believe the crap you spout.
Can't you see that it goes beyond our club and if he is driven out he will spread the word that we are a club that gets on their backs and constantly barracks it's players publicly to the extent they don't want to come and play for the yellow shirt

How would you feel if you were at work and your boss singled you out in front of all your workmates (I dont wonder if you do have mates if your soo negative) and constantly went on about how crap your work was. How slow you worked. How poor your results etc.

NOW GET OFF YOUR ARSES AND START CHEERING US ON TO LEAGUE ONE AND BE THANKFULL YOU DON'T FOLLOW DARLINGTON,
WE ARE GOING UP WITH OR WITHOUT YOU. IT'S NOT IN DOUBT NOW . WE ARE GOING UP. START BEHAVING AS IF WE ARE.

And the rest of us. our job is not just to cheer our lads on. But if any of you see this moronic behaviour going on then jump on it. as the famous saying goes, "All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to sit in silence and do nothing"

RANT OVER.

Totally agree, i hope "they" realise the error of there ways. We are a small club which when we play away particularly i feel we are more of a family than a fan base, just some certain idiots who criticise when its obvious that the majority of us can see effort and commitment! I dont know why some of our fans who travel home and away act differently at home?? maybe they feel safer to be part of a bigger crowd so they think they can express their opinions more freely?? with me going to more away games than i do home it is evident that the behaviour of fans that come away from home is a credit to us as we always give the team and staff our backing. So we need this sorting out as soon as possible!

Excellent post Gloster. The trouble with society today is that a small minority are so thick that they do not think like a normal person.
They struggle to read ,cant add 2+2,do not know how to write a letter and are the sort of morons we all seek to avoid at all costs.
You cannot argue with them becausethey are so dumb the point of view you are expressing goes right over their heads.
Fortunately they are a very small minority at Plainmoor .Clearly Martin Ling was very annoyed with the response to his substitution of Morris and it proves what an excellent Manager he is by his after match comments about the player.

I have since sent a text to Lee Mansell saying that we abhor the treatment given to Ian and hopefully they will see that it's a very small minority who abuse the guys. I hope I will get a reply.

To be honest i only read half of the OP as it seems unecessarily long for a simple point. But i completely agree. When i go to matches i stand on the pop towards the family end, and the average supporter there is in their 50's i would guess. Beside the recurring smell of digested dinner pouring out of their bottom end, it seems like a similar amount of shit comes out the top end. I have honestly never heard so many negative people in such a small space in all my life. It has only subsided lately because we're in the auto-spots, but anywhere outside of the playoffs and it's like everyones' attitude is "here we go again, what a load of shit, you're shit, the lino is shit, the passing is shit, that decision was shit" etc. etc.

WHAT KIND OF F'KING RETARD PAYS NEARLY TWENTY QUID FOR THAT!?

Football - It's entertainment. So be entertained, and enjoy what is good rather than belittle what may be bad.... Not that this thread will sadly make any difference whatsoever.
miserable sods!

Ok, just for the sake of livening this place up a little...

I accept that we are where we are, and that we are doing very well, but does that excuse a particular player a particularly poor performance? Does 30 years of having no points on my driving license mean I should receive none, even if I am caught speeding? How far should this credit extend, could one bad game be excused, five, ten, twenty? Is it not the case that we are absolutely right to make it known when things are going well, but we are discouraged from doing anything if things aren't going so well? Does this all now seem a little silly? Howe many of us are fed up of Carlos Tevez being allowed to have a 5 month holiday, refuse to take the field, treat his employer, the fans, the management, his team mates and the game of football like turd and STILL be allowed to return, no questions asked, to a £200,000/week salary and the adoration of City fans the world over? Does this not smack of exactly the same situation, the team does well, and it doing well, so it doesn't matter how one player performs, we'll just applaud him anyway because we are winning.
The whole crux of the 'don't jeer Morris' argument seems to be based upon the fact that we are 2nd in the league. I ask you, all else being equal, if we were 22nd in the league, would the jeering have then been justified, even though his performance its effect on the outcome of the match were identical?

Just some things to ponder, while you ask yourself the ultimate question, was Morris' performance jeer worthy, and is our league position and the relative 'overachievement' this represents really have any bearing on whether or not Morris was due a bi of gentle stick for generally being a bit pants for 60 minutes?

Matt.

Ref the OP. What aload of of tosh. Typical of the flouncing, nancy boy, histrionic and wet types we have around football now. Ian Morris is a pro footballer. If he can't handle a Plainmoor crowd, he will struggle if he plays for some of the less girly supported teams in football. IM need look no further than his team mate Danny Stevens for inspiration. Time to man up and get on with it.

Sorry Matt
if you are attempting to make an excuse for these excuses for supporters. Then Think again my friend.
I don't attempt to make excuses for poor performance. But one thing I won't do is barrack them publicly. You would not apreciate being barracked in front of your friends if something in your job didn't go the way you wanted. Don't do it to anyone else. Yes the players know when things havn't gone for them on the pitch. They don't need reminding in such a public way. We can do all the barracking we like on this forum. but the abuse they have recieved on the terraces make me embarrased to be a gull sometimes. I have been in the area talked of and there are a few well known faces that really make their presence felt with very pointed personal abuse aimed directly at certain players. It goes well beyond what is acceptable.
Evidence of this is the texy recieved from Lee Tonight.
He said and I qoute.
"I spoke to Ian after the game and he was obviously very upset. That sort of treatment is not on. We go out of our way to get ourselves closer to supporters. via twitter and meetings and make it one big tight unit and to hear that could easily break what has always been a great relationship as it only takes one to break the bond. Rant over" Unqoute.

What has been achieved at Plainmoor is not just down to a few members of the board and supporters coming together and building a stadium. employing a manager and paying a few players. it's about building relationships. it's about bonding in a way that is special. You won't find this bond at many clubs in the league at all. It's a come and play if you think your paid well enough. here it's play for the shirt, The fans, the club, The Manager. your mate, etc. Pay is a bonus. I am not saying that they would turn up for nothing. But given the way that things have gone on here. If there was some sort of disaster I but the players would think of the club and it's fans before their own pockets for a while. notwithstanding a mortgage to pay.
Come on United fans. Don't break what has been built. We are Top of the league. did you expect it. what would you have taken before the season started. I bet we would have stood for mid table. Just below the playoffs. Lower edge of playoffs would have been a dream. well we are living the dream and more. WE ARE SECOND. THATS TOP BAR ONE.
How many would have thought it possible. yet there are some for whome it is not enough. for goodness sakes for those people. What the hell is good enough for them.
Hurt a player you hurt the team. Break the bond and you can forget success. If you don't believe me just carry on as you have. see if I am not right!

Glostergull wrote:Sorry Matt
if you are attempting to make an excuse for these excuses for supporters. Then Think again my friend.
I don't attempt to make excuses for poor performance. But one thing I won't do is barrack them publicly. You would not apreciate being barracked in front of your friends if something in your job didn't go the way you wanted. Don't do it to anyone else. Yes the players know when things havn't gone for them on the pitch. They don't need reminding in such a public way. We can do all the barracking we like on this forum. but the abuse they have recieved on the terraces make me embarrased to be a gull sometimes. I have been in the area talked of and there are a few well known faces that really make their presence felt with very pointed personal abuse aimed directly at certain players. It goes well beyond what is acceptable.
Evidence of this is the texy recieved from Lee Tonight.
He said and I qoute.
"I spoke to Ian after the game and he was obviously very upset. That sort of treatment is not on. We go out of our way to get ourselves closer to supporters. via twitter and meetings and make it one big tight unit and to hear that could easily break what has always been a great relationship as it only takes one to break the bond. Rant over" Unqoute.

What has been achieved at Plainmoor is not just down to a few members of the board and supporters coming together and building a stadium. employing a manager and paying a few players. it's about building relationships. it's about bonding in a way that is special. You won't find this bond at many clubs in the league at all. It's a come and play if you think your paid well enough. here it's play for the shirt, The fans, the club, The Manager. your mate, etc. Pay is a bonus. I am not saying that they would turn up for nothing. But given the way that things have gone on here. If there was some sort of disaster I but the players would think of the club and it's fans before their own pockets for a while. notwithstanding a mortgage to pay.
Come on United fans. Don't break what has been built. We are Top of the league. did you expect it. what would you have taken before the season started. I bet we would have stood for mid table. Just below the playoffs. Lower edge of playoffs would have been a dream. well we are living the dream and more. WE ARE SECOND. THATS TOP BAR ONE.
How many would have thought it possible. yet there are some for whome it is not enough. for goodness sakes for those people. What the hell is good enough for them.
Hurt a player you hurt the team. Break the bond and you can forget success. If you don't believe me just carry on as you have. see if I am not right!

Glos, this little bit here shows that you have failed to appreciate the very point that I am making. Not unexpected, I knew the point would be missed by almost everyone who read it. I shan't give away the ending, just on the off chance that someone pops up and gets it.

Matt.

I don't agree with jeering your own players at any time. Even if they are Lee Andrews and we're bottom of the football league. It doesn't benefit anyone. I thought Morris was pigswill at Swindon and I made the point before the game Sat, can't we just switch them over. Even more so now. He's not comfortable on the right hand side I think that's blindingly obvious. To be fair to Ling though playing Devil's Adovcat if we're winning then it doesn't make much sense to change a winning formula. However for me swapping those 2 over wouldn't be the reason for a loss if it was to come in the next game if we did swap them anyway.

Ling spoke about this time of the season the other day, people will get nervous and that goes for fans too. It was hot saturday, it was a must win game really and we weren't winning at the time. Frustration boils over sometimes on the pitch and sometimes off it and as ever it's always a minority. It's a lot of the time younger fans as well, the Sky Sports generation where 1 defeat is a disaster and there is a crisis at whichever club if you are more than 4 points off the top of the league. You only have to look at Bournemouth sacking their manager for being halfway up league 1, Notts C sacking theirs when they were 8th, Sheff Wed, and in our league Burton. With the excpetion of Sheff Wed (who were 3rd) all those other clubs are punching above their historical weight or are at worst at their normal level. But that's modern football, Sack everyone and everyone's crap after a loss.

We're in a ridiculous position this season, seriously it's ridiculous and it's massively important if we are to finish top 3 that everyone's spirits are strong and the fans provide a comfortable atmosphere for players to perform. We will get nervous, we will play badly at times because we aren't a brilliant side and we have tough games. Port Vale is a tough game, they should be about 8th and on paper have as strong a side as us, that was an excellent win Saturday and we won't have things all our own way. But it's massively important that the fans stick with these players, you only have to look at West Ham to see what happens if you don't.

They were up 6 weeks ago, but their home atmosphere is poisonous. There is a reason they barely ever win at home yet go away and hit 3's and 4's. Mainly tactical yes as teams open up more against them when West Ham are away but the first misplaced pass or the longer it stays 0-0 there, I've never been in a ground where the supporters hate their own team so much it definitely plays a part.

Torquay fans have been spoilt absolutely rotten these last 5 years, this season being even more miraculous it is essential the fans give something back to these players, even if it is just a bit more tolerance or lee-way. Especially now in squeeky bum time.

I think what Matt is getting at is that our position in the league is completely irrelevant when it comes to the performance of a player. There is then the reaction that he gave (I haven't seen what happened yet) which he shouldn't have given. In Morris' defence though, if you've had a cr*p game and then a big cheer goes up when you get subbed off, it's something that you really don't need to be reminded of. You'd just want to put it behind you and get on with the next game, not know that the fans have actually taken some joy from seeing the back of you.

From what I've seen of Morris, I really wouldn't be losing much sleep if he left in the Summer. Not because I think he's a bad player, he just doesn't work with our style of play. He's a bit too one dimensional and one footed. He then sends over fantastic crosses to a fat bloke who can't jump and a short ar*e who can't jump either. He's just playing in the wrong team.

I'm surprised there haven't been more calls for Jarvis to get a start, unless he's not as good as suggested.

fat bloke who can't jump. Rene is as good a target man as anything in this league. His hold up play, strength and aerial ability at Swindon was a joy to see, sadly we never got any bodies around him to benfit from his play.

i wouldn't want to see Morris leave but I do kind of agree that his style isn't suited at the moment to how we play, with the system we are currently playing we could really do with a Bodin or Robinson, a natural attacking player with a bit of pace to get up and support Howe.

Jarvis may well get a go on Friday I'd be for that as he's more like the others in terms of he's naturally more attacking than Morris, but Morris definitely still has a role to play, i think having seen quite a bit of him he'd be more suited to playing centrally than out wide.

I don't like hearing our supporters jeering our players. Morris may have been a bit pants and it may well be time to give Jarvis a go (and Atieno for Stevens). That said we may look back over the season and reflect that Morris has scored a couple of important goals. I choose no to boo and jeer Torquay players myself, seems a bad form in front of the other team.

Doubt he'll change it Lloyder. When we bring Atieno/Jarvis on for Morris/Stevens we seem to go 4-2-4, which if we started with that we'll lose the midfield.

This lineup is working, lets keep it.