Employment discrimination

[AustrianAndyGull]

Matt might be the best person to ask for this i guess but just putting it out there anyway as i can't find much on the net about it, well what i can understand anyway.

Is it discrimination that an employer could be liable to prosecution or be ordered to climb down if they make me wear a long sleeved shirt even in baking hot weather in order to cover up my tattoos?

During the application process there was no question asking me if i had any nor in the subsequent inductions and protocols and it was only when i told the manager i had them and showed her then she insisted on this. She perhaps made it even worse by saying i could wear short sleeved uniform when we weren't open to the public!! Just wanted to know as i don't want another summer sweltering in winter f*cking clothing as it makes me sweat so much i get skin problems under my arms and it is very uncomfortable. So i'm either 'avin it or doing one.

Is this legal?

[Dave]

Andy I am not a legal eagle, so will not try to answer it from any legal point of view. As said on another thread I work in the same environment. I have a contract of employment and an employee handbook, do you have the same ? If so there should be a list of what the company will allow and not allow uniform wise

In our handbook there a section on uniform and other related things, in it it covers earings/nose and other piercings tattoos can't remember what it says as I have niether, we must wear black shoes trainers are allowed as long as they are black with no patterns, we are not allowed to carry a mobile phone, wallet, money or house/car keys on us while on duty.

I have known people to be sent home because they have arrived below the standard of presentation, even know of a lad who was given a razor and sent to have a shave because of his unkemp beard. I am afraid when you take this kind of job it's what you sign up to.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Cheers Dave, yeah i've got a handbook and it covers all the usual stuff like piercings, basic human cleanliness and the like but nothing about tattoos.

On the subject of the beard thing, i think this is a bit of a grey area. I generally am unshaven with stubble and a sort of designer beard/sideburns thing going down. Not anything unkempt or scruffy but i would AND HAVE refused to shave it off and have been to many job interviews like this and been successful yet a lad i worked with on temp from another animal shelter said that his boss will automatically discount anyone for a job if they rock up with any facial hair. I think that facial hair is often part of someones appearance and so long as it isn't scruffy or long should be allowed. If i was that lad at your place Dave i'd have told them to f*ck off and stick their job up their arse if i thought they were being unduly unreasonable. Like i said, it's a grey area that one and open to debate.

The mobile phone thing really gets on my f*cking nerves though. I've worked with volunteers and younger staff who all they do is walk dogs round and round a field flicking through their mobiles. Errr, play and interact with the dogs you total fannies! That's why you're there i presume? If you don't like walking dogs and stimulating them then why the f*ck are you here?!! If you are at work then you shouldn't be anywhere near a mobile phone unless you are say a farmer and are out in the middle of a field or something like like where it would be difficult to contact you. I'd say if you get caught with a mobile on your person and it is not in your break or lunch then you should be sacked on the spot.

On that bombshell.................................LOL!!

[EmetEdadsBeard]

You're gonna have to bite the bullet and cover them up I'm afraid. Schools do not allow staff to sport visible tattoos, facial piercings are not allowed (one pair of earrings apart-UNLESS YOU ARE AN ASIAN WOMAN IN WHICH CASE YOU CAN WEAR AS MUCH METAL SH1TE ON YOUR FACE AS YOU LIKE! ). Its called a professional appearance. It's the same in many other places of employment.

I was pulled for wearing black jeans instead of trousers (after wearing them for eight years) and have to wear shoes, shirt with collar and tie. My female colleagues on the other hand can wear virtually what they like (and it states this as 'more relaxed' dress code in the book), no denim, low cut tops or short skirts (pity :P ). They aren't supposed to wear open toed shoes or flip flops either for safety reasons, but ALL these restrictions are ignored on a regular basis, yet the minute one of the blokes is outside the much stricter dress code the managers are all over us. One of the main reasons for this (and I've pulled her up about it) is my manager, the one who told me I had to wear trousers has a tattoo on her foot, and wears sandals that show it during the summer. She cant pull my female colleagues for doing something she does herself, so I've even gone above her head to get a bit of balance. Nothing changed.
Stinks but all legal apparently, think I touched on this on the rant thread very early on.

On the tats thing though, this is definately where I'm with the cover up rules, as (sorry, but this is my opinion) they look a mess. Would you take advice from a bank manager who had jeans, tee shirt, pumps on and tats all over him?

[AustrianAndyGull]

No Emet but i would if he had a pristine suit on, shiny shoes and a tie........... :na:

[EmetEdadsBeard]

Joking aside mate, but what you said is true. Thats why they wear them, and thats why there are dress codes for people in certain employment, particularly when it comes to dealing with members of the public face to face. I know appearance may not make any difference to how well you can do your job, but public perception and first impressions do count for a lot, and unfortunately for you people covered in tats do not forward a good first impression.
Bite the bullet and put a long sleeved shirt on if the jobs important enough to you.
(God knows what we are going to do in the very near future or even now with these dress restrictions, as the younger generation seem to think being covered in garish tats is compulsory. My 3 grown up kids are a real rarity as none of them has so much as a blue spot on them.).

[SuperNickyWroe]

andy, there are companies that dont like tattoos.
i know i applied for a job via an agency, and there was a medical involved which also checked for tattoos!
hence i didnt get the job - even though mine are discreet.
so i think they can stipulate that you cant have them - not sure how it would be in court though.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Cheers all. I think like Emet says, tattoos are commonplace nowadays amongst the young male and female so i think some employers are a little archaic when it comes to rules and regs as regards tattoos and maybe should move with the times but it's not unexpected. If i'm honest i think that i probably do look a bit of a knob with them to be fair and don't want people to have that first impression about me but at least mine are all personal to me and not some generic tribal swirly crap that EVERYONE seems to think is compulsory to have and they also think it's cool! Some people eh?

[AustrianAndyGull]

Oh and i don't feel compelled to wear vests even when it's minus 6 outside just so i can flex my biceps and everyone can see the twirly celtic arty tribally design that is about as unique as a piece of hay in a haystack. These people are quite simply knuckledragging boneheads and when i see them i actually laugh at them when i walk past and they've got no idea why!!! HAHA so funny!

[ferrarilover]

There's quite a lot more we need to know here, Andy, in order to make an accurate judgement. Unfortunately, being tattooed is not one of the protected characteristics under the 2010 Act, thus there is unlikely to be a claim there (unless you have them as part of a religion or belief?)

As far as I know, no maximum temperature has ever been established for a working environment (there is a minimum). If I were seeking to present a reasonably case to have you allowed to wear shirt sleeves, I'd look to argue that the long sleeves present a hazard to your health, in so far as they are a significantly contributory factor to your being unreasonably warm and this presents a threat to your health. Again, without knowing the circumstances, I can't say better than that.

If this problem persists and work are wholly inflexible but the situation causes you such distress that you are forced to quit (there is a rule of reasonable fortitude here, so no being a massive jessie), then you may well have a claim for constructive dismissal.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

There's quite a lot more we need to know here, Andy, in order to make an accurate judgement. Unfortunately, being tattooed is not one of the protected characteristics under the 2010 Act, thus there is unlikely to be a claim there (unless you have them as part of a religion or belief?)
As far as I know, no maximum temperature has ever been established for a working environment (there is a minimum). If I were seeking to present a reasonably case to have you allowed to wear shirt sleeves, I'd look to argue that the long sleeves present a hazard to your health, in so far as they are a significantly contributory factor to your being unreasonably warm and this presents a threat to your health. Again, without knowing the circumstances, I can't say better than that.

If this problem persists and work are wholly inflexible but the situation causes you such distress that you are forced to quit (there is a rule of reasonable fortitude here, so no being a massive jessie), then you may well have a claim for constructive dismissal.

Matt.

Well many of them are Germanic in origin Matt and given my passion for my heritage i could say they are there due to some sort of religion. If not i guess i'll just call them racists if they don't let me wear short sleeves like everyone else does and see where that gets me. :~D

Otherwise i may have to come from the health angle and see what it throws up.

Cheers anyway.

[cambgull]

I think it depends what you do Andy. As much as tattoos and piercings are a commonplace within social groups, it is not in a professional environment. They are often used as a statement of independence and individual personality, something which companies would not want to promote as their image when represented.

I actually completely agree with the company, to be honest. Say if I were running a business and someone went out to represent my company wearing a short sleeve shirt with tattoos of dragons and perhaps a logo of a death metal band on his/her arm, presenting to an MD of another firm who's in his 50's or more, we all know the response we'd get and it would be in the form of a letter to say that they won't be working with you. The professional world is all about presentation in both your appearance and your ability to present the product/service that you are offering. If your appearance is not up to scratch, then you have already made your job twice as difficult as it should be.