Brazil 2014 Italia v England

Banging_Them_In · Post by **Banging_Them_In** » 30 Dec 2013, 22:00

Just thinking ahead......

Could this team beat Italy in the opening world cup 2014 match and progress ?

Oxlade-Chamberlain Rooney Townsend
Huddlestone Gerrard Barkley
Baines Jagielka Cahill Johnson

Hart

Subs: Forster, Wilshire, Henderson, Lambert, Sturridge, Welbeck, Lallana, Smalling, Jones, etc ?

What is your starting 11 and subs ? (Also BTW, how many subs are allowed in international tournaments ?)

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 30 Dec 2013, 22:24

Defense is poor apart from Baines IMO. Italy are a much improved side also and don't have too many household names yet but they soon will be in a few years. A draw is the best England can get here.

Banging_Them_In · Post by **Banging_Them_In** » 30 Dec 2013, 22:34

I agree Andy, the defence is not strong. Cahill and Johnson are relatively weak. Although I like Jagielka and his attitude/intelligence.

I agree with MOTD commentators recently saying that Huddlestone is a viable selection because of a good range of passing and we really need to keep the ball better.

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 30 Dec 2013, 22:41

I think it's good that finally those in the England set up have given opportunities to players in form but at unfashionable clubs. Like the Southampton trio for example. I'm not saying they will end up being good enough but they would never even got a look in before and who knows? They just might be good enough.

Banging_Them_In · Post by **Banging_Them_In** » 30 Dec 2013, 23:17

Yep, I agree about trying out a variety of players (young and not so young).

Do you remember Bobby Robson plucking out Steve Bull whilst still in the 2nd tier and taking him to Italia '90 ...... I also think Mark Hatley made his debut for England from (seemingly) nowhere ........ inspired !

I can see some similarities between Bobby Robson and Roy Hodgson in this aspect.

EmetEdadsBeard · Post by **EmetEdadsBeard** » 07 Jan 2014, 18:36

It doesn't matter whether Hodgson picks players from 'unfashionable' clubs (just what exactly does that mean?) or every player from Chelski, Arse, ManUre, Thieverpool (aka Victimpool, Compopool, Wasn'tuspool, etc etc) (For)Ever(signing on)ton or nouveau 'fashionable' Man 5h1tty, we may scrape out of the group stage only to meet one of the countries who's players aren't massively overrated (Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Germany even Belgium or the highly rated Columbians and the flight will be booked home.

Same as every other World Cup since 1970 (well the ones we've qualified for.....)

Post by **happytorq** » 07 Jan 2014, 21:01

EmetEdadsBeard wrote: we may scrape out of the group stage only to meet one of the countries who's players aren't massively overrated (Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Germany even Belgium or the highly rated Columbians and the flight will be booked home.

Well, England *can* only meet Columbia from that list in the second round, given that they're in Group C. England could also meet Greece, Japan or Ivory Coast. And we all know how well Colombia did last time there were 'highly rated' (can you be highly rated and not 'massively over-rated'?)

It's a tough group to get out of, but I don't know what people expect. England are ranked 13th in the world, so based on that the correct round for England to go out would be the round of 16. Anything further than that would be a plus.

And this whole myth about England fans and media 'expecting' them to do so much better, where does that come from?! I don't think any England fan in the last 20 years has felt that the team is capable of winning anything. They're in the secondary group (behind the perennial Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain, Argentina. and a couple of others) that would need everything to go exactly right in every game for them to get anywhere near the semis. England has a collection of very good players, none of whom are the best in the world at their particular position, but nonetheless a generally very competent group. Not every country can be Brazil or Spain which seems to produce geniuses every day.

Kernowgull · Post by **Kernowgull** » 07 Jan 2014, 21:23

Ive been saying that for years and posted it on another thread but it was ignored. Nobody expects England to win, or has done for years. The media hyped up the "Golden Generation", and I still think England bottled the best chance of winning something in 2002, but nobody thinks England will win the world cup. However, come the WC, I will be hoping they can, in the same way I hope Torquay will win each week. If I didn't, there would be very little point in following football.

On the flip side, In 1990, 1996 England were a shootout away from Finals, 2004, 2006, 2012 a shootout away from semi finals and 1998 a shootout away from the quarters. Win all of those and Englands recent history would look so much better!! I know it didn't happen, but in none of those tournaments were we knocked out playing 90 mins or extra time.

We're going to win the World Cup, nobody can handle Walcotts pace....doh..

Post by **happytorq** » 07 Jan 2014, 21:37

Kernow - I hear what you're saying. I was really responding to Emet's outburst; I don't think England's players are 'over-rated' any more. We know what to expect from them, while at the same time hoping for more.

EmetEdadsBeard · Post by **EmetEdadsBeard** » 08 Jan 2014, 23:38

Kernowgull wrote:Ive been saying that for years and posted it on another thread but it was ignored. Nobody expects England to win, or has done for years. The media hyped up the "Golden Generation", and I still think England bottled the best chance of winning something in 2002, but nobody thinks England will win the world cup. However, come the WC, I will be hoping they can, in the same way I hope Torquay will win each week. If I didn't, there would be very little point in following football.

On the flip side, In 1990, 1996 England were a shootout away from Finals, 2004, 2006, 2012 a shootout away from semi finals and 1998 a shootout away from the quarters. Win all of those and Englands recent history would look so much better!! I know it didn't happen, but in none of those tournaments were we knocked out playing 90 mins or extra time.

We're going to win the World Cup, nobody can handle Walcotts pace....doh..

Ahh, The 'Golden Generation'. They were going to sweep all before them. At the time I did tell people that Ferdinand, Cole, Beckham et al were all massively overrated by both the press and England fans and I took some right stick for it. Until they failed miserably as I predicted.
Ok, so the current crop aren't as massively hyped but I still hear on the radio and read on forums how the current crop are 'World Class'. Its in all honestly bollox. If Theo Walcotts injury is the disaster the England management and press are making out we are a country mile poorer than dogshite. Don't get me wrong, he's not the worst but take away his lightening speed and what have you got? Nothing, an ordinary footballer. Andy Carroll (if he gets over his injury). A bustling centre forward who is a throwback to the 50s. He won't get a touch of the ball during the World Cup whether he's on the park or not. If he wasn't from that mythical hotbed of football that is Newcastle he wouldn't even be playing in the top flight he's such a donkey yet some members of the press are spaffing over him! I could go on but there's no point, Wilshere, Barkley, Jagielka, blah blah are World Class yet they will all be shown up for what they are-massively overpaid, ordinary footballers who both they and the press (and even moreso the ex players who are now pundits in various media) claim are 'World Class'.
Rant over.

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 09 Jan 2014, 12:33

Beckham failed miserably? You've been down t'pit too long, Beardy.

Matt.

EmetEdadsBeard · Post by **EmetEdadsBeard** » 09 Jan 2014, 19:00

ferrarilover wrote:Beckham failed miserably? You've been down t'pit too long, Beardy.

Matt.

Never been down the pit except on a visit. :slap:
I did say The 'Golden Generation' which included the massively overrated, one footed, couldn't head or tackle Beckham had failed.
Yes overrated. There are far too many sheep who believed all the hype surrounding Beckham, great passer of the ball etc, and ignore the shortcomings I've just stated. Well here's my take on it. IF YOU AREN'T A GREAT PASSER OF A FOOTBALL WHAT ARE YOU DOING PLAYING AS A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER FFS?

I will give him credit for his attitude and work rate, second to none, and yes, he was very good at passing the ball but surely all pro players should be able to do that?

Now get back on your fishing boat!

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 09 Jan 2014, 20:35

The Golden Generation were three penalty shootouts and one robbery-by-referee away from being hugely successful. We lost three coin tosses in a row, which is unlucky and were robbed by a cheating official against Germany. Had the results gone for rather than against us, those same players would be the darlings of the football world even today.
Yeah, they never quite managed to do as a team what they were capable of as individuals, but they did come much closer than the record suggests.

As for Becks, you're mad and his record of excellence for over 20 years proves that.

Matt.

Post by **happytorq** » 09 Jan 2014, 21:47

ferrarilover wrote:Beckham failed miserably? You've been down t'pit too long, Beardy.

Matt.

To be fair, I think Emet was referring to the collective failures of the England over that period, not necessarily Beckham's. I'd agree with him too, in as much that what was achieved by the England side was nowhere near what the hype would have you believe. whether the team went out on penalties is practically irrelevant, the simple fact was that England was never in with a realistic chance of winning the World Cup, and hasn't been since 1990. I though the team of 1998 was the best of the bunch and that they were hard done by to lose to Argentina in the second round, but they'd almost certainly have lost to a far superior dutch side in the next round anyway.

Banging_Them_In · Post by **Banging_Them_In** » 10 Jan 2014, 23:39

Will we miss Walcott ?

Torquay United Fans Forum