TorquayFans.com | Torquay United Fans Forum

I'm sure the phrase "womens team" needs an apostrophe, but I can't decide where it needs to go.

Little help?

Matt.

After the s, as it's a plural.

So it's a plural possessive?

Matt.

You made me doubt myself, so I've checked.

I was right: http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/ld/resourc ... apostrophe
Quote here: 3. If the word is plural and ends in s just add an apostrophe:

the students’ library books - meaning the books belonging to the students.

Further examples are:

the ladies’ football league; the workers’ rights.

Brilliant, cheers Scotty.

Matt.

Sorry but Scott is to some extent in error here.

The word 'women' is the plural form of 'woman', so the apostrophe comes after the 'n': women's.
Similarly: man, man's; men, men's.

Scott's further examples are, however, correct. If the plural form of a word ends in 's', then in the possessive form the apostrophe follows the 's'. For example: (sing.) sex, sex's; (plur.) sexes, sexes'.

Gullscorer is correct. However if you are talking about more than one team of women, then it would be womens' teams (plural teams).

Heritage gull wrote:Gullscorer is correct. However if you are talking about more than one team of women, then it would be womens' teams (plural teams).

I disagree, because this would indicate the possessive of the plural of a plural word, which is ungrammatical. Indeed, plurals of plurals are impossible; there is no such word as womens. The additional plural you mention refers not to the word 'women', but to 'team', for which the possessive form is not required here.

Thus, if there is more than one team of women, the apostrophe should still follow the 'n':
One team: women's team. More than one team: women's teams.

However, if the possessive is also required for the teams, it should be indicated as in, for example: the women's teams' balls.
Or even: the women's teams' balls' pressure levels' correctness (though such awkward phraseology should be avoided in good writing), the word 'pressure' here being used more as an adjective rather than a noun (there may be a precise technical term for this, which I forget: modify/modifier?) and therefore not requiring a plural nor a possessive form.

So, in the case of a team comprised of females, we still treat the team as being 'possessed' by them for the purposes of grammar? There need not be physical possession of a thing (ie, ownership or holding) for a thing to be said to be 'possessed' (as in women's team)?

Matt.

Correct.

There's a much simpler way to look at this. When have you ever heard of the word, "womens"? It doesn't exist without an apostrophe, therefore, how can you have a plural of it?

It's "women's".

Yeah, ok, I'll give you that. Can anyone think of any other examples?

Matt.