Torquay United Fans Forum

You look at our team and you would hope there are enough players there to get us out of this mess. If you consider the spine - a decent keeper in Poke, a great defensive pairing in Saah and Downes, in midfield (on paper at least) an experienced player like Mansell and Howe up front.

You would think that, that is better than what e.g. Plymouth could muster. But then Mansell has not been playing well and the rest of the side is made up of players who on their day can work wonders but far too often are just ineffective. Perception is a funny thing. At the start of the season, one felt that we still had a decent squad, based on the previous season. Yet at the start of last season after Buckle ransacked the squad, I thought we were weak, so was pleasantly surprised with how last year went. But perhaps, the squad was poor after all.

The way it has been performing, the perception is that actually, these players are not good enough, they cannot win and we are doomed. You would fancy the current squad to do well in the Conference but we know that anyone half decent will be off and the replacements will be substandard.

Whose fault is this? I'm beginning to think the board has to take some blame. When Ling was not signing players, I wondered if it was him. But now that Knill isn't either, then who is the common denominator here? I think Martin Ling was running out of ideas before he was taken ill and I'm afraid, that although three games is too early to tell, Knill needed to make an immediate impact and like many of us feared, he is not that type of manager. Too many players are performing badly, so it is probably a combination of all three.

[quote="bixieupnorth"]seaside or the pits of yorkshire, i know where i'd choose, oh hang on, i picked the wrong one!![/quote]


Me too! :'(

[quote="pezzagull"]I mostly agree with Brucie's comments! Also consider this:-
1) Much as i hated the little scrote as a man, I am convinced that Buckle would have loan-signed between 2-3 players in the last 2 weeks no trouble!!
2)[color=#FF0000] Before any one questions the potential qualiity of his loan signings did he not bring in Craig Stanley; Jake Robinson; and Gavin Tomlin at the tail end of his last season and maybe other players that have slipped my mind for the moment[/color]3) Although few players would want to come to us on loan from the North of England , again Craig Stanley came from a Nortern club!![/quote]

No, those players all arrived at the club in January 2011, as we know those players came from Morecambe, Shrewsbury and Dagenham. Which does tend to make the argument about our club not being able to attract players because we pay peanuts wages and have a poor location look complete nonsense so what.

And it is what I have have been saying for while, all about timing, would Buckle have signed these players in march, probably not, as they would have already been out on loan, or just would sat tight, as said we have left it all to late, sadly.

seaside or the pits of yorkshire, i know where i'd choose, oh hang on, i picked the wrong one!!

[quote="bixieupnorth"]the board are on a hiding to nothing really this season, all the money spent on that grandstand and bailing the club out of the last mess, it was promised that we would never again be allowed to descend to the depths of the conference, but the present board werent around then, and they dont seem to have any grasp of how serious the situation has become since the turn of the year.

maybe they've all put all the money they can afford into the club, maybe they decided that they would settle bills and keep us solvent with the money raised from eunan etc, did we even get all the money upfront??

maybe ling was offered the money to bolster squad, maybe he decided he didnt need to, my opinion is, as a lot of others, that we do have a competent squad, some superb players, but they havent been told or allowed to play the right way. we've got one of the tightest defences luckily, and we still havent been battered by anyone this season. but the clock is ticking down, games are coming around quickly, its only this month and next and our fate will be decided. theres no may miracle to come to the rescue, i think we've got to realise that we arent gonna get any players in this week either by the looks of it? [color=#FF0000]its up to our players to do it themselves, build on our flawless defence and get the midfielders to sort themselves out[/color], [color=#FF0000]they all know who can do what, do they never express their opinions to the manager, surely it cant be all one way traffic from ling/taylor/knill, they are grown men, take it upon themselves to do what needs [/color][color=#FF0000]doing on the pitch these last 11 games.[/color] its gonna take a lot of courage, as the plainmoor crowd will do very little to raise their mood if things dont click into place very quickly against oxford, there will be a lot more noise coming out of the away end this saturday than from the pop and the bench.

i still think we'll scrape thru this, but will things change for next season, no future planned until we know how ML will be , hardly any players under contract, luckily they probably wont attract much attention from elsewhere so the manager should be able to sign who he wants. gonna be a quiet summer anyway i reckon, but its all part of the frustration of being a gulls fan[/quote]

:goodpost: :clap:

good post. absolutely agree 100 % with all of it especially the highlighted bit. have said it for years if something is not working in a match a professional footballer (midfield especially) who has probably been playing since they were 6 or 7 years old should be able to think on the pitch for themselves and change the way things are going.

i have seen this happen before many times. quite often it is about how much a manager or coach trusts their players. too often these days they dont.

and yes they should listen to their players at times for ideas or to get the best out of them. this would bring a more respectful ,positive working relationship all round.

managers seem to be more worried about what the other team are going to do and are more worried about not losing than trying to go for the win.

too much of that has happened at our club. conclusion = the manager/coach does not trust the players enough.

which leads me back to the fact i agree we should be pushing the ball forward and attacking more. the best, most successful teams attack, they dont worry so much about being solid and defending. if the ball is up at the oppositions end then they have the problem and defending isnt such a worry.

teams should defend from the front.

attack is the best form of defence.

no guts, no glory.

[quote="usagullmichigan"]What are you talking about? You can totally see why Branno left Torquay for Bradford :~D[/quote]

Via Rotherham...

[quote="SteveDeckchair"]Martin Ling didn't seem to have much problem bringing players in. Neither did Buckle before him, so i don't really buy this location nonsense.[/quote]

What are you talking about? You can totally see why Branno left Torquay for Bradford :~D

I just hope that Alan Knill can build on positives and we beat Oxford. selfish reasons as I have a yearly £200 bet with an Oxford fan here and have fleeced him in previous years, and could really do with the money right now.

Martin Ling didn't seem to have much problem bringing players in. Neither did Buckle before him, so i don't really buy this location nonsense.

there will be a clear out at the end of season that is for sure, and i think people fail to realise that the board have been very fair on putting in fairly good monies into the club, also the wages are pretty good for this league they may not be at the top end but its good when you realise what players and daggers, morecombe , aldershot ,accrington are earning. i think on the gates we get the players get a very good wage, we dont pay peanuts as someone said and we may not have a bottomless pit but simon baker and co are doing there bit. also i think alan knill is the right man for the job but he also needs to try to bring in the right players to help out and that is proving diificult, i dont believe its the wages, i really think its more of the location.

the board are on a hiding to nothing really this season, all the money spent on that grandstand and bailing the club out of the last mess, it was promised that we would never again be allowed to descend to the depths of the conference, but the present board werent around then, and they dont seem to have any grasp of how serious the situation has become since the turn of the year.

maybe they've all put all the money they can afford into the club, maybe they decided that they would settle bills and keep us solvent with the money raised from eunan etc, did we even get all the money upfront??

maybe ling was offered the money to bolster squad, maybe he decided he didnt need to, my opinion is, as a lot of others, that we do have a competent squad, some superb players, but they havent been told or allowed to play the right way. we've got one of the tightest defences luckily, and we still havent been battered by anyone this season. but the clock is ticking down, games are coming around quickly, its only this month and next and our fate will be decided. theres no may miracle to come to the rescue, i think we've got to realise that we arent gonna get any players in this week either by the looks of it? its up to our players to do it themselves, build on our flawless defence and get the midfielders to sort themselves out, they all know who can do what, do they never express their opinions to the manager, surely it cant be all one way traffic from ling/taylor/knill, they are grown men, take it upon themselves to do what needs doing on the pitch these last 11 games. its gonna take a lot of courage, as the plainmoor crowd will do very little to raise their mood if things dont click into place very quickly against oxford, there will be a lot more noise coming out of the away end this saturday than from the pop and the bench.

i still think we'll scrape thru this, but will things change for next season, no future planned until we know how ML will be , hardly any players under contract, luckily they probably wont attract much attention from elsewhere so the manager should be able to sign who he wants. gonna be a quiet summer anyway i reckon, but its all part of the frustration of being a gulls fan

I still believe that we have a squad of players capable of finishing at least mid-table and therefore I pin most of the blame on our current predicament on the management team.
It was Martin Ling who fostered the safety first attitude to the game. As for Shaun Taylor and his spell in charge, he is a coach, brought in by Ling to help train the players in a safety first style. I in no way blame him for not being any good as a manager.

Besides the (imho wrong) choice made on the style of play the biggest mistake made this season was not signing a replacement for Morris when he got injured. It left us with a very defensive squad with little option to change things from the bench when needed. Whether that was Ling's decision or the board's I do not know.

Having gotten ourselves in to this position I do blame the board for not being more decisive sooner. I am proud to support Torquay United, a club who since the new board took over have fostered a reputation as a good, well run, family, community club. But, we still need to be ruthless. I realise it is tough for the board, this is the first time since they took over that things have gone badly and they lack the experience of making game changing decisions but that is what we needed at Christmas, or the new year at the latest. A big decision made then could have seen us moving up rather than tumbling down.

In essence, I think all parties within the board and management are culpable. I only hope they are quick learners and we can soon do something to stop the rot.

We're now only looking at two months living by the sea in a hotel/B&B, out of a suitcase. Not really any hardship if it's getting you first team footy?
Perhaps it's all about contacts... we'll just have to see.

I mostly agree with Brucie's comments! Also consider this:-
1) Much as i hated the little scrote as a man, I am convinced that Buckle would have loan-signed between 2-3 players in the last 2 weeks no trouble!!
2) Before any one questions the potential qualiity of his loan signings did he not bring in Craig Stanley; Jake Robinson; and Gavin Tomlin at the tail end of his last season and maybe other players that have slipped my mind for the moment
3) Although few players would want to come to us on loan from the North of England , again Craig Stanley came from a Nortern club!!

[quote="brucie"]
Plain fact is Bollocks Baker signed a northern based manager - did anyone seriously think he was going to attract four or five players from Lancashire. If I could see it why couldn't the chairman?
Its all to do with the geographical location you see. Players won't come down to this part of the country. Why then have Plymouth managed to sign SEVEN players?
[/quote]

This paragraph is a contradiction - why was Knill never going to be able to sign players, when Sheridan has done so?

Besides, we are living in the information age Terry. Do managers really only sign players from their birth county??