There appears to be many different views flying about with regards for who is culpable for our current unsatisfactory situation. Some find the board at fault for their delay tactics in failing to bring in new players when required and even now when desperately required we still are struggling to add to the squad. This was pehaps exacerbated in the eyes of the fans after they said on a number of occasions that players would be brought in and they weren't ( for whatever reason ). They are accused of complacency and taking their eyes of the ball and pursueing non priority avenues such as the plastic pitch idea and not giving the manager full backing. Have they also dealt with all the problems thrown at them this season in an apropriate manner as it has been levelled at them at times they have contributed to what looks like a comedy show to others outside of the club.
Some find the management team of Martin Ling and Shaun Taylor at fault for instilling a mindset of safety first football from day 1 which is now so deeply embedded within the players that when it doesn't work we are exposed and often lose or draw from winning positions and the players seemingly have no idea how to flip this approach on it's head and do the opposite. Nobody can argue how well Martin juggled the squad and dealt with the triple hammer blow of losing Ellis, O'Kane and Olejnik by replacing them with cheaper options, Downes and Poke in particular, pieces of managerial genius in my opinion. Nobody can question Lings professionalism or dedication to TUFC and, although i dont know the man, apparently he is a true gentleman and honest as the day is long.
Some find the players at fault for not playing to their capabilities on a regular basis. We have some really good players here at Torquay United but are the really good ones being held back by the really bad ones or are both good and bad players just playing badly every week and holding something back?
Is there another reason why we perhaps find ourselves in the position we are in?
This isn't 'another defeatist thread' before anyone comes on sticking the boot in willy nilly just because it makes them feel holier than thou. It is simply a thread which is putting a question out there to get peoples reasons for thinking what they do. I am particularly interested because of something Dave (SG) has said about his unhappiness with the board and also because he questioned my criticism of Ling for the mess we're in. I was interested in his criticism of the board because it is something i haven't really considered before, blaming the board for our demise this season. I must be honest and say i know nothing about how TUFC is run and i know nothing about the board and their views and aspirations. I am a person who generally speaking thinks 'what i see on the pitch is what i can comment on' and therefore my opinions about culpability for where we are comes from the manager mainly and the players too to some extent.
Is unhappiness with the board more widespread than i thought?
I suppose a sensible view would be that all 3 have some part to play in our spectacular collapse and who could argue. I would just like to say sorry that i accept Ling is not solely responsible, although i do still believe he has had a huge detrimental impact on our club by his method of football. I did blame Ling without looking at the full picture.
Again, this is not about having a go at anybody or getting the big stick out it is purely a debate about 3 key areas of our season and with so many people having different views it would be interesting to me to hear them and peoples reasons behind them. Hopefully i can learn more things i didn't know before to help fill in the gaps i have. Thankyou.
Board? Players? Management? Or all 3?
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AustrianAndyGull
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Board? Players? Management? Or all 3?
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Scott Brehaut
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Have the board really helped with signing players this season? Infrastructure is all well and good (and I am grateful to the Board for their willingness to buy the club when it was falling apart around them), however it appears to me (via several sources) that not all of the Board are pulling in the same way and those with more "power" than the others are getting their way - to the detriment of our league position.
STIP
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AustrianAndyGull
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That's another thing Scott, ( and thanks for the reply by the way ) it seems there are a few of you who 'are in the know' about various things behind the scenes and privy to some things that people like me won't get to know so you are more able to assess things differently to others. I'm not suggesting that you are one of these people in the know Scott but i reckon there are some on here who have sources. I'm just a matchstick chewing Yorkshireman though and too simple to realise this. 
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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SteveDeckchair
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Does being the owner of a farm food business make you a good football chairman? Not in my mind.
Quite often companies with large boards find it difficult to make decisions. Too many cooks. Weighed down by endless debate. It takes a strong chairman to keep them all in check and I'm not certain we have that.
Quite often companies with large boards find it difficult to make decisions. Too many cooks. Weighed down by endless debate. It takes a strong chairman to keep them all in check and I'm not certain we have that.
Last edited by SteveDeckchair on 04 Mar 2013, 22:18, edited 1 time in total.
Mmmmmm, beeeeeeeer.
Who knows and who cares really. This season has been one big cock up from start to finish. We have been absolute shit from start to finish. The board are to blame,so is Ling and so is Taylor for his ridiculous team line up and lack of tactics at Aldershot. The board's mouthpiece is bumbling Bill Phillips a bloke who by all accounts is a director but didn't put any money into the club.
I did say after his ridiculous pre match Interview before the Cheltenham game when he seemed to think that we were destined for the play offs that the bloke was an idiot and I have been proved right.
Ling? - yes he is culpable as well. He signed the players and appalling defeats at the hands of Harrogate,Barnet and Wimbledon were written off as "bad days at the office".
The time to have addressed this problem was after the defeat against Wimbledon when it was obvious that our sub standard squad wasn't up to it.
But no we have limped along and done sod all about it.
Really it is criminal that this situation has been allowed to develop.
Now we have a new manager and were promised players who are desperately needed to strengthen the squad. But no - we have signed bugger all,zilch,billy bastard nobody.
Who cares if Knill has been turned down by ten players, in fact who cares if he has been turned down by a hundred?
Plain fact is Bollocks Baker signed a northern based manager - did anyone seriously think he was going to attract four or five players from Lancashire. If I could see it why couldn't the chairman?
Its all to do with the geographical location you see. Players won't come down to this part of the country. Why then have Plymouth managed to sign SEVEN players?
Andy - you have every right to be angry. We may yet turn it round who knows - its a possibility.
BUT - I am absolutely convinced that we are going down. I am not convinced that Knill is the right man and I cannot see the current team beating anybody. I think we wil lose to Oxford and that will be the beginning of the end for us.
I did say after his ridiculous pre match Interview before the Cheltenham game when he seemed to think that we were destined for the play offs that the bloke was an idiot and I have been proved right.
Ling? - yes he is culpable as well. He signed the players and appalling defeats at the hands of Harrogate,Barnet and Wimbledon were written off as "bad days at the office".
The time to have addressed this problem was after the defeat against Wimbledon when it was obvious that our sub standard squad wasn't up to it.
But no we have limped along and done sod all about it.
Really it is criminal that this situation has been allowed to develop.
Now we have a new manager and were promised players who are desperately needed to strengthen the squad. But no - we have signed bugger all,zilch,billy bastard nobody.
Who cares if Knill has been turned down by ten players, in fact who cares if he has been turned down by a hundred?
Plain fact is Bollocks Baker signed a northern based manager - did anyone seriously think he was going to attract four or five players from Lancashire. If I could see it why couldn't the chairman?
Its all to do with the geographical location you see. Players won't come down to this part of the country. Why then have Plymouth managed to sign SEVEN players?
Andy - you have every right to be angry. We may yet turn it round who knows - its a possibility.
BUT - I am absolutely convinced that we are going down. I am not convinced that Knill is the right man and I cannot see the current team beating anybody. I think we wil lose to Oxford and that will be the beginning of the end for us.
This paragraph is a contradiction - why was Knill never going to be able to sign players, when Sheridan has done so?brucie wrote: Plain fact is Bollocks Baker signed a northern based manager - did anyone seriously think he was going to attract four or five players from Lancashire. If I could see it why couldn't the chairman?
Its all to do with the geographical location you see. Players won't come down to this part of the country. Why then have Plymouth managed to sign SEVEN players?
Besides, we are living in the information age Terry. Do managers really only sign players from their birth county??
"Also, stands aren't sentient."
I mostly agree with Brucie's comments! Also consider this:-
1) Much as i hated the little scrote as a man, I am convinced that Buckle would have loan-signed between 2-3 players in the last 2 weeks no trouble!!
2) Before any one questions the potential qualiity of his loan signings did he not bring in Craig Stanley; Jake Robinson; and Gavin Tomlin at the tail end of his last season and maybe other players that have slipped my mind for the moment
3) Although few players would want to come to us on loan from the North of England , again Craig Stanley came from a Nortern club!!
1) Much as i hated the little scrote as a man, I am convinced that Buckle would have loan-signed between 2-3 players in the last 2 weeks no trouble!!
2) Before any one questions the potential qualiity of his loan signings did he not bring in Craig Stanley; Jake Robinson; and Gavin Tomlin at the tail end of his last season and maybe other players that have slipped my mind for the moment
3) Although few players would want to come to us on loan from the North of England , again Craig Stanley came from a Nortern club!!
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Bloggy
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We're now only looking at two months living by the sea in a hotel/B&B, out of a suitcase. Not really any hardship if it's getting you first team footy?
Perhaps it's all about contacts... we'll just have to see.
Perhaps it's all about contacts... we'll just have to see.
I still believe that we have a squad of players capable of finishing at least mid-table and therefore I pin most of the blame on our current predicament on the management team.
It was Martin Ling who fostered the safety first attitude to the game. As for Shaun Taylor and his spell in charge, he is a coach, brought in by Ling to help train the players in a safety first style. I in no way blame him for not being any good as a manager.
Besides the (imho wrong) choice made on the style of play the biggest mistake made this season was not signing a replacement for Morris when he got injured. It left us with a very defensive squad with little option to change things from the bench when needed. Whether that was Ling's decision or the board's I do not know.
Having gotten ourselves in to this position I do blame the board for not being more decisive sooner. I am proud to support Torquay United, a club who since the new board took over have fostered a reputation as a good, well run, family, community club. But, we still need to be ruthless. I realise it is tough for the board, this is the first time since they took over that things have gone badly and they lack the experience of making game changing decisions but that is what we needed at Christmas, or the new year at the latest. A big decision made then could have seen us moving up rather than tumbling down.
In essence, I think all parties within the board and management are culpable. I only hope they are quick learners and we can soon do something to stop the rot.
It was Martin Ling who fostered the safety first attitude to the game. As for Shaun Taylor and his spell in charge, he is a coach, brought in by Ling to help train the players in a safety first style. I in no way blame him for not being any good as a manager.
Besides the (imho wrong) choice made on the style of play the biggest mistake made this season was not signing a replacement for Morris when he got injured. It left us with a very defensive squad with little option to change things from the bench when needed. Whether that was Ling's decision or the board's I do not know.
Having gotten ourselves in to this position I do blame the board for not being more decisive sooner. I am proud to support Torquay United, a club who since the new board took over have fostered a reputation as a good, well run, family, community club. But, we still need to be ruthless. I realise it is tough for the board, this is the first time since they took over that things have gone badly and they lack the experience of making game changing decisions but that is what we needed at Christmas, or the new year at the latest. A big decision made then could have seen us moving up rather than tumbling down.
In essence, I think all parties within the board and management are culpable. I only hope they are quick learners and we can soon do something to stop the rot.
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bixieupnorth
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the board are on a hiding to nothing really this season, all the money spent on that grandstand and bailing the club out of the last mess, it was promised that we would never again be allowed to descend to the depths of the conference, but the present board werent around then, and they dont seem to have any grasp of how serious the situation has become since the turn of the year.
maybe they've all put all the money they can afford into the club, maybe they decided that they would settle bills and keep us solvent with the money raised from eunan etc, did we even get all the money upfront??
maybe ling was offered the money to bolster squad, maybe he decided he didnt need to, my opinion is, as a lot of others, that we do have a competent squad, some superb players, but they havent been told or allowed to play the right way. we've got one of the tightest defences luckily, and we still havent been battered by anyone this season. but the clock is ticking down, games are coming around quickly, its only this month and next and our fate will be decided. theres no may miracle to come to the rescue, i think we've got to realise that we arent gonna get any players in this week either by the looks of it? its up to our players to do it themselves, build on our flawless defence and get the midfielders to sort themselves out, they all know who can do what, do they never express their opinions to the manager, surely it cant be all one way traffic from ling/taylor/knill, they are grown men, take it upon themselves to do what needs doing on the pitch these last 11 games. its gonna take a lot of courage, as the plainmoor crowd will do very little to raise their mood if things dont click into place very quickly against oxford, there will be a lot more noise coming out of the away end this saturday than from the pop and the bench.
i still think we'll scrape thru this, but will things change for next season, no future planned until we know how ML will be , hardly any players under contract, luckily they probably wont attract much attention from elsewhere so the manager should be able to sign who he wants. gonna be a quiet summer anyway i reckon, but its all part of the frustration of being a gulls fan
maybe they've all put all the money they can afford into the club, maybe they decided that they would settle bills and keep us solvent with the money raised from eunan etc, did we even get all the money upfront??
maybe ling was offered the money to bolster squad, maybe he decided he didnt need to, my opinion is, as a lot of others, that we do have a competent squad, some superb players, but they havent been told or allowed to play the right way. we've got one of the tightest defences luckily, and we still havent been battered by anyone this season. but the clock is ticking down, games are coming around quickly, its only this month and next and our fate will be decided. theres no may miracle to come to the rescue, i think we've got to realise that we arent gonna get any players in this week either by the looks of it? its up to our players to do it themselves, build on our flawless defence and get the midfielders to sort themselves out, they all know who can do what, do they never express their opinions to the manager, surely it cant be all one way traffic from ling/taylor/knill, they are grown men, take it upon themselves to do what needs doing on the pitch these last 11 games. its gonna take a lot of courage, as the plainmoor crowd will do very little to raise their mood if things dont click into place very quickly against oxford, there will be a lot more noise coming out of the away end this saturday than from the pop and the bench.
i still think we'll scrape thru this, but will things change for next season, no future planned until we know how ML will be , hardly any players under contract, luckily they probably wont attract much attention from elsewhere so the manager should be able to sign who he wants. gonna be a quiet summer anyway i reckon, but its all part of the frustration of being a gulls fan
still keeping the faith
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ROADRUNNER
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there will be a clear out at the end of season that is for sure, and i think people fail to realise that the board have been very fair on putting in fairly good monies into the club, also the wages are pretty good for this league they may not be at the top end but its good when you realise what players and daggers, morecombe , aldershot ,accrington are earning. i think on the gates we get the players get a very good wage, we dont pay peanuts as someone said and we may not have a bottomless pit but simon baker and co are doing there bit. also i think alan knill is the right man for the job but he also needs to try to bring in the right players to help out and that is proving diificult, i dont believe its the wages, i really think its more of the location.
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SteveDeckchair
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Martin Ling didn't seem to have much problem bringing players in. Neither did Buckle before him, so i don't really buy this location nonsense.
Mmmmmm, beeeeeeeer.
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chippygull
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I just hope that Alan Knill can build on positives and we beat Oxford. selfish reasons as I have a yearly £200 bet with an Oxford fan here and have fleeced him in previous years, and could really do with the money right now.
Fate: A police dog called Bryn bit Torquay player Jim McNichol and the time while he was receiving treatment was added onto the end of the second half.
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usagullmichigan
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What are you talking about? You can totally see why Branno left Torquay for Bradford :~DSteveDeckchair wrote:Martin Ling didn't seem to have much problem bringing players in. Neither did Buckle before him, so i don't really buy this location nonsense.
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