The League Two relegation battle

[AustrianAndyGull]

Agree Dave, York won and are now a win away from us, Wimbledon are now a win away from us and should Barnet beat us then they too will be a win away from us meaning we HAVE to beat Morecambe which given our amazing away record makes me reach for the tissues AND hope that the three teams mentioned don't pick up the odd point here and there. This could mean that come the Brizzle game we could be already down or need a win AND other results to go our way. A draw on tuesday and i'm not relinquishing my tiny slither of hope that i have but lose and we're gone and i don't care how much chest beating goes on afterwards.

[tauntongull]

Agreed we were only having the usual permutation discussion this evening. Is it better to know the results of other teams when your game is called off or is it better to not know. Personally, i would rather play the game - I keep on about mental strength but this is what matters right now and nothing else. "I'll take a draw" is something that should never be said before any game. Forget other results - as a team let the fans go through the emotional turmoil with that one. Psychologically we should be talking and more importantly believing that we will win - even getting the players to visualise the ball going in to the net. Ultimately you want the players to truly believe they are the best. If we can improve their mental strength we will stay up - my concern is have the players already talked themselves out of this based on the events of this season? I hope not.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Agreed we were only having the usual permutation discussion this evening. Is it better to know the results of other teams when your game is called off or is it better to not know. Personally, i would rather play the game - I keep on about mental strength but this is what matters right now and nothing else. "I'll take a draw" is something that should never be said before any game. Forget other results - as a team let the fans go through the emotional turmoil with that one. Psychologically we should be talking and more importantly believing that we will win - even getting the players to visualise the ball going in to the net. Ultimately you want the players to truly believe they are the best. If we can improve their mental strength we will stay up - my concern is have the players already talked themselves out of this based on the events of this season? I hope not.

Given that before today we had recent form only better than York and look what they did today then i'd say yes they have. It's one thing saying we need to win on tuesday but look at the players in the squad, have we seen battlers, leaders, grafters, resilience, talent and creativity even? I've seen pretty much f*ck all of these and partly the reason why i think we'll go down is that i purely and simply do not believe that most of our players are able to dig deep into their physical and mental reserves and produce the goods when it is most needed. That rather than how good/bad our players are is the key reason why i think we'll go down. Sorry to say. Remember , we have NO Labadie who gave us how many points? Now we've got exactly the same squad plus Benner who has scored what? 1 in about 12 or something? We underestimate the lift that Labadie and Chappell gave the team and now they have just been cruelly taken away so what impact must this have had on an already despondant squad? . It's just not going to happen.

[coley in stripes]

I agree Andy. I have always said 52 points are required. The only hope is that like most of the wrong and 'against on paper' predictions on here have proved to be wrong, it JUST MIGHT happen to us...Win on Tuesday and that might just be the 'kick off' we need with still work to do. But obviously, no win will condem us....But as agreed, all the evidence is that it won't happen...The way things are going this season, BURY will collapse but we will finish bottom !!!!!

[tauntongull]

I have to agree with both of you - I just hope we are all wrong - and try to keep the faith.

[nickbrod]

I just hope the players realise what they have got us into. For many of them it's their future they are playing with. Out of the Football League and their job prospects are slim so it's in their own interests to up their game.
Now we've lost Labadie and Chapell the players who got us into this mess have to be the ones who get us out of it.

[tauntongull]

I agree Nickbrod but footballers very rarely (unless they are long standing to the club) have any loyalty. I kind of feel that if they are regulars in the squad that they think they are better than they actual are and will find a contract come close season. Given that the vast majority of our squad were here last season I am not sure why all of a sudden our supporters feel they are non-league players. I am more interested in why the performance level of the side slowly started to dwindle - in my opinion the rot started after the defeat at home to Burton and the following weeks exit from the FA Cup to Harrogate Town.

[Scott Brehaut]

I think we have a few "loyal, bleed yellow, and would die for the club" players (Manse and Nico spring to mind), however whilst their intentions are good, they are having a poor season.

[yeovilgull]

Oh for a Hargreaves to drive the others on from midfield or a Sills to get on the end of a cross or two. We just don`t seem to have that type of character in the team anymore. I will retain a small amount of optimism until it`s too late and hope that we somehow get the positive response that other teams have had when dropping into the bottom two.

I`ve no idea what Martin Ling`s current state of health is but I know there was some talk of him returning to the fold in May I believe. I`ve no idea if he has had any contact with the players but if he is up to it I think it would do no harm in him making an appearance in the dressing room some time between now and Tuesday purely to show the players he is on the mend and that his thoughts are with the players. I`m not suggesting he talks tactics etc but just showing his support might just give the players that extra lift needed.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I have to agree with both of you - I just hope we are all wrong - and try to keep the faith.

I have to say that i am really impressed but not yet to the point of inspired by the way many of you still have real hope and belief that we are going to escape the drop and i'm not being patronising when i say that it is a credit to you all. I'm finding it really difficult to balance my hope (heart) with what my head is telling me to the point that my bi-polar issues are escalating!!

I know that i am fairly new to supporting Torquay, and as Southampton Gull pointed out to me in another thread, many of you have seen this, done this and bought the t-shirt when it comes to relegation battles whereas me, i have just seen the one when we went down from league 2 last time but i wasn't really a serious supporter then. I suppose you can draw on this experience and will never accept defeat until confirmation either way is upon us. Me, well i'm just flapping and the postponement of the game today has really prolonged this agony. It is agony and i can't think of much else but tuesday night as it stands.

Just thought i'd post something positive as i have posted lots of negative stuff about today but it is merely my opinion. Many of you are now accepting that the worst could happen whilst still believing that they won't and that is the way it should be but for me sadly. It was just the posters 2 or 3 months ago who were told by lots of us that we could actually go down and they refused to accept it as a seriously viable occurence that frustrated me. Now i think many of you are getting that dose of realism that we all should have had months ago IMO but also with the defiance and belief that shows you haven't given up hoping. That is the most important thing and although we can't all have the same thought processes, i thoroughly respect your passion and stoicism in the face of adversity like being a few games away from non-league.

I think the reasons why myself, Coley and a few others were so annoyed with what are now known as 'happy clappers; i believe months ago was their blunt refusal to recognise anything was wrong despite some seriously bad performances on a week by week basis and as the weeks passed the message was the same, we're fine, we're fine there is nothing to worry about whilst all the while us doubters were getting panned for being consistently negative only because we post on each game as it comes as each one was getting progressively worse. Anyone could have seen it with their own eyes but some chose to bury heads in sand.

Gradually most of you have come around to realising that it is highly likely that we will be relegated but still retain that sense of positivity that you were most vitriolic for many months ago. We need that now, positivity and negativity has fluctuated back and forth on this site since the season began, i remember going to Fleetwood first game and being thoroughly disappointed with a poor negative display with only 1 shot at goal but yet placated because it was the first game of the season. Little did i know that the 0-0 draw gained on that day and in that manner was simply a continuation of the shocking football and form from the end of the season before and it soon became apparent that all was NOT well and we continued in the same vein, struggling to score goals and playing for draws.

Now 40 odd games on, this site and the club NEED you, they NEED the positivity which i scoffed at before, they NEED a long straw to cling onto in the hope of climbing it and dropping into the champagne which is in the glass it sits in. Champagne for celebrations of an almightily fortunate escape amidst a calamity of errors this season and celebrations of a whole new slate in the summer and a wholesale clearout and disinfecting of the club from top to bottom so we can begin to move forward again.

It will be difficult in these next few days not to post anything inflammatory or downbeat as tensions are running high and people are on edge, the postponement of the Barnet game has just left the pot simmering a little longer and if it boils over then it boils over but i think i should try and keep it real until after the game on tuesday and then see where we are. I'm sure most of you will anyway as you'll still believe even if we are 4-0 down at half time. That is an admirable quality and one which a lot of the time i really wish i had.

HATS OFF!

[nickbrod]

Come on Andy it's still possible to salvage something from this season.
I've been supporting the Gulls for 49 years so experiencing ups and, now, downs is nothing new.
Torquay never do anything the easy way whether its promotion or relegation. I still think it's down to the final day.

[tauntongull]

Let's hope not - I remember the torrid time Oastler had at theirs!

[Scott Brehaut]

i really dont understand why people think nico would die for the club. he threw his toys out and asked for a transfer when buckle dropped him.

players that would die for clubs are few and far between and dont think any of the current squad fit the bill. they have more likely got comfortable and dont want to move house

I honestly believe Manse gives everything he has got for 90 mins. He may not be the best player to every grace Plainmoor, but he rarely (if ever) gives up, and is one of the few "Mr 100%" guys to don a yellow shirt.

I saw him in the Exeter game at their place, and he was everywhere....unplayable at times (and I don't think that is an exaggeration). When he is pumped the players are lifted. He is a good captain for the club on the pitch.

Yeah, he may have gone off the boil a bit this season (who hasn't!!), but he is probably one of the first players on the team sheet - and much deserved. He will be here until he retires, of that I am almost certain.

I concede your point about Nico, although still think he loves it here and would put himself on the line for the club if needed....he is having a bad season, but then almost everybody is guilty of that. He is, perhaps, now being exposed for pace and is maybe good purely for set pieces now, but a good experienced player to call on.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Got to agree Edd although i'd take Downes out of the equation. From what i have seen of him up here in Chesterfield and speaking to some of their fans PLUS what i've seen of him in a yellow shirt i have no hesitation in saying that Aaron is one of the select few who gives his all every single week and he does this through a sense of responsibility to his fans and his employers and he is a true professional in every sense of the word IMO. Manse is another, ok so he hasn't had a great season but you can't fault his effort and commitment. Most of them can f*ck off if i'm honest and i'll get some stick for that but it's how i feel but i'll stop there as i said i wouldn't be too negative.

[SuperNickyWroe]

I honestly believe Manse gives everything he has got for 90 mins. He may not be the best player to every grace Plainmoor, but he rarely (if ever) gives up, and is one of the few "Mr 100%" guys to don a yellow shirt.

I saw him in the Exeter game at their place, and he was everywhere....unplayable at times (and I don't think that is an exaggeration). When he is pumped the players are lifted. He is a good captain for the club on the pitch.

Yeah, he may have gone off the boil a bit this season (who hasn't!!), but he is probably one of the first players on the team sheet - and much deserved. He will be here until he retires, of that I am almost certain.

I concede your point about Nico, although still think he loves it here and would put himself on the line for the club if needed....he is having a bad season, but then almost everybody is guilty of that. He is, perhaps, now being exposed for pace and is maybe good purely for set pieces now, but a good experienced player to call on.

disagree scotty.
manse has been poor this season - but not as bad as nicho!
if you gave me a choice between manse and hargreaves id pick the jesus/yeti/pikey hargreaves every time.