Torquay United v Chesterfield - 16/11/13

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Torquay United v Chesterfield - 16/11/13

Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Hi folks, back in a limited capacity after a brief 'mindfulness' sabbatical. :lol:
This is a very important game in many respects for both clubs. Us due to the fact we are struggling for any sort of consistency on and off the pitch and once again failed to back up a hard earned win at Bury by ensuring despondency got the green light to flourish at Plainmoor last time out v Rochdale in the FA Cup. Chesterfield themselves have been in a poor vein of form having not won a league game since a 1-0 win at Oxford on September the 21st, a run of a month and a half and 7 games.

In that time they have managed to somehow lose 4-3 at Morecambe despite having a 3-0 lead, they have been beaten at home to nearest and dearest Mansfield Town 1-0, lost 2-0 at Burton, cost me a bet (again) by drawing 2-2 at home to York going behind twice and last time out conceding in the last minute at home to Scunny to draw 1-1. They are still in 3rd place on 26 points though so they picked a good time to have a poor run. The worry is that poor runs of form have to end sometime and having been at the Proact last night to watch their 3-0 demolition of Rochdale in the JPT quarters I have no doubts whatsoever that they will find winning at Plainmoor like taking candy from a baby.

The Spireites eventually overcame a stubborn Daventry side at home in the FA Cup last weekend 2-0 having to wait until the 69th minute before breaking the visitors stubborn resistance and like I said, last night they registered a comprehensive 3-0 win over Gulls cup conquerors Rochdale last night in the JPT. So they are back purring and looking to get league action back underway with a return to winning form.

If I could just have a while to tell you all about last night, I decided to go an watch their JPT game against Rochdale for 'something to do' and the tickets were only £12. As many of you know I can be at the Proact Stadium from my doorstep in less than 5 minutes and it is so comforting to know i'm sat in the freezing cold watching the game and 10 minutes after the whistle i'll be back at home. Anyway I went and sat with the Rochdale fans of which there were 174 of them, well technically 173. The crowd was just shy of 3000.

If I could focus on our opponents on Saturday first it looks like they play a 4-2-3-1 set up on a regular basis as they did last night and give or take a few players like Morsy who has been forced out of the starting 11 due to a knee injury they played pretty much the side they have been starting in league games.

They have a lad called Ollie Banks who was signed from FC United of Manchester in September and he came in against Scunny a few weeks back for the first time this season. He played in like a 3 across the middle formation moving from side to side and he gave them all sorts of problems. First half he looked the part despite the orange boots, a big lad similar to Peter Crouch but great touch, mobile, slick passing and movement and he nodded the Spireites in front on the stroke of half time to make it 1-0. Very, very impressed with him.

In fact Chesterfield were very impressive and although they have better quality of players than us theire style is not too disimiar to what we could be achieving at Torquay but they play with energy, vibrancy and desire and when they get confidence up they look good.

They like the big man up top Gnanduillet who is a handful too (scored as well last night) but unlike us he is NEVER isolated, they always have nippy, buzzy quick players just tucked in behind such as Jay O'Shea, Gary Roberts and Banks providing the height and physicality.

In addition to this they had Hird in a sort of Lathrope-esque anchorman role (we can't do this now - he's gone to Hereford - bizarre) and Jimmy Ryan next to him who is a busy industrious player. Ian Evatt and Liam Cooper provide a solid enough central defensive partnership and Humphreys plays on the left whilst Drew Talbot is right full back and he loves to overlap and get forward, good player.


So all in all they have got it spot on and the only reason I can see as to why they are struggling (relatively) is that they always give the opposition the opportunity of scoring goals with their expansive attacking play. Last night at times it was a joy to watch, far superior to league 2 and they always had players in and around in support and overlapping and Rochdale just couldn't cope. If Chesterfield play like this on Saturday and target Nico we will get annihilated IMO 3,4 or even 5. They are due a scoreline like that and it could come on Saturday i'm truly sad to say.

The way they play would have been an easy 3 points for a Ling side. He'd keep them at bay with hard work and defensive responsibility and because they are a side you can always get at on the break we'd pick them off 1-0. They have so much of the ball and think only of going forward that it's all about digging in and hitting on the break. There is no way in the world we have 11 players who can match them for effort, energy and determination. If Knill gets his team tactics and selections wrong then this may be embarrassing for us and set us back so much.

I'm only going on what I saw last night, speaking to a few Chez fans and also reading their forums to get my information and at the end of the day it's 90 minutes 11 v 11 but if we couldn't muster a whimper at home to Rochdale, who were comprehensively outplayed last night then I don't expect miracles on Saturday.

The bright spot is that Rochdale got a head of steam up for about 5 minutes at 1-0 down and Chesterfield didn't like being on the back foot. Dale had the ball in the net which the linesman inexplicably ruled offside and you could visibly see that if that goal had stood then Rochdale had their tails up and for all the dominance of Chesterfield you can see why they draw so many and concede stupid goals. Dale also hit the post a few minutes later but that was the sum of their attacking and even that could have seen them get a draw. So they have vulnerability at the back, I noticed also from set pieces so if we can get Downes et al up there for corners etc then that is an avenue we can exploit.

One thing is for sure, they make you work hard when you haven't got the ball and if we have no energy and correct attitude right from the kick off we'll get mullered.

Anyway, sorry about the negativity. It is just my opinion based on what I saw last night and what I have heard and read about them versus what I have seen of us. I naturally hope for a good result.

They also have players such as Gary McSheffrey, Tendayi Darikwa, Marc Richards, Eoin Doyle and Sam Togwell as well as a really good keeper in Tommy Lee so strength in depth for a club who have so much money that they had to ask the local council to write off a £1 million pound debt. It is clubs like Chesterfield who don't make the division a level playing field but there is p*ss all we can do about that apart from taking the points and concentrating on our own affairs and hoping that rewards for fairness will come.

I enjoyed last night but once again I have to confirm two things.

I have found that Lancashire sides seem to have a large simpleton contingent. Fleetwood fans have in the past made disparaging comments as have Accy and I sat with the Oldham fans the other year in the JPT at Chesterfield and a lot of them were aggressive, foul, abusive and to their own players also throughout. The Rochdale fans weren't quite so bad but I heard one racist comment aimed at Chesterfield striker Armand Gnanduillet about his skin colour not nationality which a few seemed to find amusing. There were chants of die to the Chesterfield fans, the linesman having a song sung about him having his foreskin attached to his flag and not getting a shag, shouts of abuse and in addition, the level of singing and constant support which I KNOW our players get every away game was none existent. There were 174 of them there too! I have to commend them for turning up but the support was awful. I nearly fell asleep!

Possible the worst aspect of this 'support' was when the 2nd went it about 20 people got up and left and when the 3rd went in nearly half of them left!! I was at Fleetwood a few months back and we went 4-0 down. NOT ONE of us left the ground until the very end and even at the end most of us stayed behind to applaud the players off even though lots had a 300 mile journey home. This happens at all of our away games and I was just staggered at the Rochdale fans for this. I even commented to a bloke I was talking to at half time about it although he seemed a little irritated, I said I was a Torquay fan and was talking to him about their cup win over us and stuff.

I just don't think our players realise what a dedicated and loyal and vocal (away) set of fans they have to support them given the low number of TUFC fans and the distances travelled to away games. I'm sure they would have been chuffed to have turned round to us at Fleetwood to give us a clap and seeing one man and his pigeon left in the stands even given such a shocking performance. I've sat with a few different sets of fans now and pound for pound ours are the f*cking dogs. No doubts. Respect and well done. We just need to get some energy going at Plainmoor now on a regular basis.

Anyway that's it. The ref is Darren Sheldrake who i'll always remember because he reffed in my first ever match at Plainmoor, a 2-1 win over Port Vale in Lings first season and he sent one of their players off plus gave us a penalty in a separate incident! It may not be all bad news then?!

I don't trust Knill to a) get his tactics correct, b) get his first 11 correct c) get the team suitably energised and motivated for the battle so I have no choice but to go for a 3-1 Chesterfield victory. One thing is for sure, this Chesterfield side when on song isn't one you can just stick 11 out there and hope for the best like we did at Bury.

Accrington next week could be another 'Bury' scenario but we'll wait and see. Come on Alan, you can do this. Just get your head together, sit down and work through the opposition and get the lads up for this from the 1st kick.

Get down to Plainmoor everyone!!
Last edited by AustrianAndyGull on 13 Nov 2013, 12:28, edited 1 time in total.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Post by Scott Brehaut »

Thanks for this Andy - an interesting insight into our upcoming opponents.

COYY!!
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Scott Brehaut wrote:Thanks for this Andy - an interesting insight into our upcoming opponents.

COYY!!
No probs Scott, i'm just trying to help Alan out a bit. :clap:
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Post by ferrarilover »

They haven't won in 7 games and they're third. Jesus, this division is completely pointless. Might as well scrap the whole thing. It's not a contest of skill, at all.

Matt.
J5 said, "ferrarilover is 100% correct"
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Post by Kernowgull »

Not closely looked at the tables for a while, too depressing, and not really sure what this indicates in terms of Matts point above, however, we are only 12 points off second. In League One, Championship and Conference, the gap between 2nd and 4th bottom is far bigger- 16, 19 and 23 points.

If a team at the bottom could sort themselves out, the upper reaches of the league are not miles away.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

What i'm saying about Chesterfield if we put aside the fact that they obviously have a lot more better players than our and a much bigger budget is that Paul Cook has in mind the style of football he wants to play and the formation which generally has been constant all season. As it is a positive, organised, direct, fluid, energetic approach then they will always pose a goal threat and win more than they lose. Obviously there will be games like in their poor run where they dominate and get 'done' and there will be games where they will just put in a stinker but they key thing is that Cook KNOWS what he is trying to achieve and how he wants to play things. If he holds his nerve and gets some confidence back into the players which looked like it last night then they will be promoted.

We have Knill, the polar opposite. We know our players aren't as good as Chesterfield but if they had a system and settled strategy to take into each game then the inclusion / exclusion of players from the 11 every 2 minutes wouldn't be so much of an issue. All would be well drilled and know what is expected of them.

As it stands we play our 16th league game on Saturday and still I could not say with any modicum of confidence what the team will be, what formation we will play, what tactics Knill will use and how the players will respond from kick off. That is the problem. There are far too many variables changing from week to week for any of the players to fully understand their role in the team dynamic.

Ling had this settled mentality like Cook at Chesterfield but his approach was too negative whereas Cook has the right approach. To focus on the attack and be positive knowing that he has good players at his disposal and hope that his less capable back line can do the business too more often than not. I believe we have pacy and skilful attackers who could do just as much damage as Chesterfield. Believe me if Bodin has the ability in there which a lot of you claim then he would have had a party in that Chesterfield side last night. He would have seen loads of the ball in advanced areas, been encouraged by players buzzing around him to give him options and he would have got so much confidence from that. Take Crewe away 3-0 a few years back, Billy in a spireites shirt last night would have done him the power of good. Ling and Knill have both played a big part in killing this lads league career.

I think with Chesterfield , they just had so many players in advanced areas and because they forced the play with energy (which we should do - we're at home ffs) they had lots of the ball and players available for the pass and move at all times. They only needed a Lathrope type player in Hird to sweep things up ahead of the defence and they were never under too much pressure.

Simple organisation, hard work and positivity instilled into the players you have and we could be flying. Ling had the first two and if he added the third he would have usurped Buckle as our best manager in recent years. Yes it is weird me saying that but I only criticised Ling for his lack of ambition. He had the right set up like Chesterfield but his attackers were so laboured and isolated that it just didn't work. Cook has this off to a tee and I've no doubts we'll see the benefits of this on Saturday sadly.

If Knill wants to know how to beat Chesterfield then all he need do is watch Newcastle at Spurs. Hard work, pressing, not letting them get passing together, energy, Ricey on form and us taking our chances when they come.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Anyway that's me done posting until the weekend so bye all. :-D
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Post by berkshire yellow »

Sam Togwell is my coaches brother! Lee Togwell, remember his face the day after we beat chesterfield at home near the end of last season!
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Post by arcadia »

berkshire yellow wrote:Sam Togwell is my coaches brother! Lee Togwell, remember his face the day after we beat chesterfield at home near the end of last season!
He may have another shock if Knill plays 4-2-4 back to front and then change it front to back they will still have three more in midfield than us. :)
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Post by lucy6lucy »

AustrianAndyGull wrote:Hi folks, back in a limited capacity after a brief 'mindfulness' sabbatical. :lol:
This is a very important game in many respects for both clubs. Us due to the fact we are struggling for any sort of consistency on and off the pitch and once again failed to back up a hard earned win at Bury by ensuring despondency got the green light to flourish at Plainmoor last time out v Rochdale in the FA Cup. Chesterfield themselves have been in a poor vein of form having not won a league game since a 1-0 win at Oxford on September the 21st, a run of a month and a half and 7 games.

In that time they have managed to somehow lose 4-3 at Morecambe despite having a 3-0 lead, they have been beaten at home to nearest and dearest Mansfield Town 1-0, lost 2-0 at Burton, cost me a bet (again) by drawing 2-2 at home to York going behind twice and last time out conceding in the last minute at home to Scunny to draw 1-1. They are still in 3rd place on 26 points though so they picked a good time to have a poor run. The worry is that poor runs of form have to end sometime and having been at the Proact last night to watch their 3-0 demolition of Rochdale in the JPT quarters I have no doubts whatsoever that they will find winning at Plainmoor like taking candy from a baby.

The Spireites eventually overcame a stubborn Daventry side at home in the FA Cup last weekend 2-0 having to wait until the 69th minute before breaking the visitors stubborn resistance and like I said, last night they registered a comprehensive 3-0 win over Gulls cup conquerors Rochdale last night in the JPT. So they are back purring and looking to get league action back underway with a return to winning form.

If I could just have a while to tell you all about last night, I decided to go an watch their JPT game against Rochdale for 'something to do' and the tickets were only £12. As many of you know I can be at the Proact Stadium from my doorstep in less than 5 minutes and it is so comforting to know i'm sat in the freezing cold watching the game and 10 minutes after the whistle i'll be back at home. Anyway I went and sat with the Rochdale fans of which there were 174 of them, well technically 173. The crowd was just shy of 3000.

If I could focus on our opponents on Saturday first it looks like they play a 4-2-3-1 set up on a regular basis as they did last night and give or take a few players like Morsy who has been forced out of the starting 11 due to a knee injury they played pretty much the side they have been starting in league games.

They have a lad called Ollie Banks who was signed from FC United of Manchester in September and he came in against Scunny a few weeks back for the first time this season. He played in like a 3 across the middle formation moving from side to side and he gave them all sorts of problems. First half he looked the part despite the orange boots, a big lad similar to Peter Crouch but great touch, mobile, slick passing and movement and he nodded the Spireites in front on the stroke of half time to make it 1-0. Very, very impressed with him.

In fact Chesterfield were very impressive and although they have better quality of players than us theire style is not too disimiar to what we could be achieving at Torquay but they play with energy, vibrancy and desire and when they get confidence up they look good.

They like the big man up top Gnanduillet who is a handful too (scored as well last night) but unlike us he is NEVER isolated, they always have nippy, buzzy quick players just tucked in behind such as Jay O'Shea, Gary Roberts and Banks providing the height and physicality.

In addition to this they had Hird in a sort of Lathrope-esque anchorman role (we can't do this now - he's gone to Hereford - bizarre) and Jimmy Ryan next to him who is a busy industrious player. Ian Evatt and Liam Cooper provide a solid enough central defensive partnership and Humphreys plays on the left whilst Drew Talbot is right full back and he loves to overlap and get forward, good player.


So all in all they have got it spot on and the only reason I can see as to why they are struggling (relatively) is that they always give the opposition the opportunity of scoring goals with their expansive attacking play. Last night at times it was a joy to watch, far superior to league 2 and they always had players in and around in support and overlapping and Rochdale just couldn't cope. If Chesterfield play like this on Saturday and target Nico we will get annihilated IMO 3,4 or even 5. They are due a scoreline like that and it could come on Saturday i'm truly sad to say.

The way they play would have been an easy 3 points for a Ling side. He'd keep them at bay with hard work and defensive responsibility and because they are a side you can always get at on the break we'd pick them off 1-0. They have so much of the ball and think only of going forward that it's all about digging in and hitting on the break. There is no way in the world we have 11 players who can match them for effort, energy and determination. If Knill gets his team tactics and selections wrong then this may be embarrassing for us and set us back so much.

I'm only going on what I saw last night, speaking to a few Chez fans and also reading their forums to get my information and at the end of the day it's 90 minutes 11 v 11 but if we couldn't muster a whimper at home to Rochdale, who were comprehensively outplayed last night then I don't expect miracles on Saturday.

The bright spot is that Rochdale got a head of steam up for about 5 minutes at 1-0 down and Chesterfield didn't like being on the back foot. Dale had the ball in the net which the linesman inexplicably ruled offside and you could visibly see that if that goal had stood then Rochdale had their tails up and for all the dominance of Chesterfield you can see why they draw so many and concede stupid goals. Dale also hit the post a few minutes later but that was the sum of their attacking and even that could have seen them get a draw. So they have vulnerability at the back, I noticed also from set pieces so if we can get Downes et al up there for corners etc then that is an avenue we can exploit.

One thing is for sure, they make you work hard when you haven't got the ball and if we have no energy and correct attitude right from the kick off we'll get mullered.

Anyway, sorry about the negativity. It is just my opinion based on what I saw last night and what I have heard and read about them versus what I have seen of us. I naturally hope for a good result.

They also have players such as Gary McSheffrey, Tendayi Darikwa, Marc Richards, Eoin Doyle and Sam Togwell as well as a really good keeper in Tommy Lee so strength in depth for a club who have so much money that they had to ask the local council to write off a £1 million pound debt. It is clubs like Chesterfield who don't make the division a level playing field but there is p*ss all we can do about that apart from taking the points and concentrating on our own affairs and hoping that rewards for fairness will come.

I enjoyed last night but once again I have to confirm two things.

I have found that Lancashire sides seem to have a large simpleton contingent. Fleetwood fans have in the past made disparaging comments as have Accy and I sat with the Oldham fans the other year in the JPT at Chesterfield and a lot of them were aggressive, foul, abusive and to their own players also throughout. The Rochdale fans weren't quite so bad but I heard one racist comment aimed at Chesterfield striker Armand Gnanduillet about his skin colour not nationality which a few seemed to find amusing. There were chants of die to the Chesterfield fans, the linesman having a song sung about him having his foreskin attached to his flag and not getting a shag, shouts of abuse and in addition, the level of singing and constant support which I KNOW our players get every away game was none existent. There were 174 of them there too! I have to commend them for turning up but the support was awful. I nearly fell asleep!

Possible the worst aspect of this 'support' was when the 2nd went it about 20 people got up and left and when the 3rd went in nearly half of them left!! I was at Fleetwood a few months back and we went 4-0 down. NOT ONE of us left the ground until the very end and even at the end most of us stayed behind to applaud the players off even though lots had a 300 mile journey home. This happens at all of our away games and I was just staggered at the Rochdale fans for this. I even commented to a bloke I was talking to at half time about it although he seemed a little irritated, I said I was a Torquay fan and was talking to him about their cup win over us and stuff.

I just don't think our players realise what a dedicated and loyal and vocal (away) set of fans they have to support them given the low number of TUFC fans and the distances travelled to away games. I'm sure they would have been chuffed to have turned round to us at Fleetwood to give us a clap and seeing one man and his pigeon left in the stands even given such a shocking performance. I've sat with a few different sets of fans now and pound for pound ours are the f*cking dogs. No doubts. Respect and well done. We just need to get some energy going at Plainmoor now on a regular basis.

Anyway that's it. The ref is Darren Sheldrake who i'll always remember because he reffed in my first ever match at Plainmoor, a 2-1 win over Port Vale in Lings first season and he sent one of their players off plus gave us a penalty in a separate incident! It may not be all bad news then?!

I don't trust Knill to a) get his tactics correct, b) get his first 11 correct c) get the team suitably energised and motivated for the battle so I have no choice but to go for a 3-1 Chesterfield victory. One thing is for sure, this Chesterfield side when on song isn't one you can just stick 11 out there and hope for the best like we did at Bury.

Accrington next week could be another 'Bury' scenario but we'll wait and see. Come on Alan, you can do this. Just get your head together, sit down and work through the opposition and get the lads up for this from the 1st kick.

Get down to Plainmoor everyone!!
Andy we didn't go 4-0 down at fleet wood it was 3-0, 3-1 and straight away 4-1 :clap:
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Post by AustrianAndyGull »

Oh yeah, i'd switched off 5 minutes after we'd kicked off we were that bad! :)
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
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Post by Richinns »

I wonder if there might be a chance we change things a little on Saturday. I might even give Sullivan a go in the number 10 role which has become so popular recently. Give a bit more in midfield perhaps and also a bit more creativity.

I would go:

--------------------Poke---------------------
Tonge----Downes----Pearce----Cruise
---------Manse---------Mozika/McCourt
Azeez---------Sullivan--------Chapell
-----------------MaCallum------------------
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Post by oxgull »

Well I will be down for this one. One of my visits to father in Kingsteignton and he doesn't mind being left at home in Oak Close even though I have offered to take him to his first ever game in his 83 years but No! He says he isn't going to watch grown men kicking a bag of wind around, bl**** waste of time and money! Yeah, thanks Dad :) Good idea with the Yellow KTN thing BTW.
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Post by gullintwoplaces »

Richinns wrote:I wonder if there might be a chance we change things a little on Saturday. I might even give Sullivan a go in the number 10 role which has become so popular recently. Give a bit more in midfield perhaps and also a bit more creativity.

I would go:

--------------------Poke---------------------
Tonge----Downes----Pearce----Cruise
---------Manse---------Mozika/McCourt
Azeez---------Sullivan--------Chapell
-----------------MaCallum------------------
No problem with trying Sullivan, but I certainly would not put Azeez in, azeez performance against Rochdale was worse than abysmal. I am usually an eternal optimist, but I see nothing but another defeat in this game. The Rochdale performance shocked me, I didn't think I would see a Torquay side play that badly.
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Post by arcadia »

gullintwoplaces wrote: No problem with trying Sullivan, but I certainly would not put Azeez in, azeez performance against Rochdale was worse than abysmal. I am usually an eternal optimist, but I see nothing but another defeat in this game. The Rochdale performance shocked me, I didn't think I would see a Torquay side play that badly.
Don't worry their supplying blindfolds as you go in to get a gigger crowd.
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