Happy Talk...

[Fonda]

I assume Mr Hargreaves is aware that all out of contract players are free to sign for clubs now? It isn’t just ours that can go elsewhere – the doors do actually function in both directions. Or at least I assume they do. Perhaps that’s another area in which we’re cutting back. I mention it because seemingly whilst all around are increasing their bulging numbers, our depleted squad continues to be neglected.

Yet again, we’ll be the last to burst into action. Whilst our place in the League is gone, our role of picking up the left-over’s clearly isn’t. Don’t fret though – we’ll act quickly enough to offer some of the dross nobody else wanted, £20 a week more than they’d get stacking shelves in their local Tesco’s. If the club wanted to dispel any concerns that last season’s debacle was terminal, with this plan of total inactivity they’re going about it all wrong.

Don’t get me wrong though, this was always going to be a very different experience to our previous sabbatical in this division. As a club, we don’t have sufficient money, intent or belief to make our second stay a short one. Whilst we have a small squad again – that is where the similarities end. Last time we had a (relatively) large budget, a manager that knew the division intimately and a feel-good factor from the boardroom to the terraces. This season we have...none of those things.

We evidently don’t have a competitive budget. I don’t consider the manager a complete fool, I’m sure he’d like to be doing some business. But it looks increasingly like he can’t afford to compete for signings – even at this level. He’ll have to wait until the players he tries to sign have two options - sign for us or sign on. So the quality we’ll be getting is obvious.

The manager himself has done the square root of f-all to convince me he’s the man for the job. I certainly don’t advocate making changes until a manager has had sufficient time to prove one way or the other if he’s good enough. Hargreaves certainly hasn’t had that yet, but I didn’t see anything from him last season to convince me he’s got the tools. Hopefully he’s grown into the job over the summer. Time will tell on that.

As for a ‘feel-good factor’, I’ve personally never looked forward to a season less. It’ll take all my energy to get there for our first home game (But I will, because that’s what we do isn’t it?) But I won’t enjoy it. Of that I’m absolutely convinced. There isn’t the slightest buzz about a ‘new challenge’. We’re in a division which contains ex-league clubs with bigger support and better prospects than us, and ‘new money’ clubs that have no history, little support but bucket loads of cash. I console myself with the thought that there must be at least 4 or 5 clubs that don’t fit into either of those categories, and we’ll finish above them. Ultimately though, my guess is we’ll be closer to the bottom of the division next season than the top. And if we exit the ‘Skrill’ any time in the next 5 years, it’s much more likely to be down than up.

I’ll probably leave it there. Too much positivity makes me giddy. See you again in September for more happy thoughts. Up the Gulls!

[TeenageGull]

Seems like you have no idea about the world of football or world of finance and even then we have done more business than your post suggested. Know the facts before you start slating or having no faith in the man at the helm.

[Fonda]

Ah crumbs. It's worse than I thought then. I work in Finance, so on top of everything else I need a new job too!

[TeenageGull]

Wrong wording on my part, the struggles and realities of running a football club with no money

[ferrarilover]

Andy, you're back.

Are you familiar with the concept of 'object permanence'? Allow me to explain: you know how, when you close the curtains at night, you're aware that the world doesn't simply disappear (we'll ignore Schrödinger for now). Babies can't do that. They don't understand that, simply because they can't see things, that they continue to exist. That's why they cry when you take away their toy, but perk up as soon as you give it back. It's not so much the toy, as the belief that it's ceased to exist.
Well, a number of our supporters (an ever growing number, sadly) seem to be regressing to infancy.

Just because you (we) can't see the signings (they haven't been mentioned by DT in the HE), that doesn't mean they aren't there.

When we made public the fact that we were after Midson, and then we lost him, even though 'going public' had absolutely no bearing on his choosing €a$tl€igh, the club, as usual, took a pasting for it.
Now, when we're keeping our cards extremely close to our chest, well, you guessed it, the club are taking a pasting for it.

God bless the internet.

Matt.

[PlainmoorRoar]

Stupid OP

[Fonda]

Hmm, that all sounds very complex Matthew. I'm not sure my tiny brain can cope with that! But let me try. What you're trying to say is 'we have targets, but don't want to reveal them for fear of losing them? (Just for future reference, by the use of unnecessary analogies, you've almost made a very simple concept sound very complicated). Not sure why, but something to think about maybe.

As for the point, I think I just about understand it. And I very much hope your 'insider info' proves to be accurate and we sign lots of players from under the noses of our rivals. Hell, even if we do sign the dross I expect, we can pretend we beat lots of other clubs to their signatures! Happy days.

Out of interest, do you think we'd have announced our interest in Midson if we still had a realistic chance of signing him? Or is there a chance we name-checked a player we already knew was going elsewhere, for the purposes of PR? You make a very good point above - that revealing targets before they're secured is pretty silly. And not something I'd expect our club to do.

To clarify, I'm not fussed about the lack of players we're being 'linked' with'. I'm concerned only with those we sign. Considering the size of our squad, the amount of signings is a little uninspiring thus far.

[Fonda]

Stupid OP

Thanks mate. Your input on the other hand is positively genius.

[Fonda]

I'll be honest. What I was hoping for is that if I 'voiced my concerns' there would be a flood of people happy to tell me where I'm wrong (rather than merely telling me I am). I appreciate Matt for joining in. Anyone else care to take any of my points and dispel my fears? I need the positivity!

[Dave]

Hi Shane.. Not going re-open old wounds to much here, and hash things that have been done to death already, the club went down, it's a shat situation of our doing, no one else to blame, that said it really is time to move on and see how we as a club can deal with it, think in parts of your OP Shane, you've kind of answered your own question. Simple answer, no, we cant afford to sign all the players CH wants.

If the team chase down a play-off spot, maybe bag a trip to Wembley, or even get promoted first of asking, will come as a major shock to me, and a very welcome one to all, I think your sentiment is we're likely to backwards in the first instance, and I agree with that, the club has four or five big earners on the books that have to be shifted first, hopefully those that don't want to stay will get loan moves with a percentage of their wages covered, but until that happens there has to be an understanding, CH is some what hamstrung, I do think next season will be more difficult than some think, but I'm all is being down behind the scenes to bring players in.

And before anyone else tries a joke that no doubt will fly straight over my head :Oops: , re; me not renewing my season ticket, I will be at games next season, not all, and when I do come will be paying £17 instead of £14

[Glostergull]

I assumed by the title that this was a positive thread aimed at helping supporters to look more positivley at supporting the team. we start our new season shortly. like it or lump it were are down. nothing we can do about it now. just put our noses to the grindstone and get on with it.
CH will contact all the players we wants at the club. some will want to come some won't. We cannot even alude to who is coming in fact. It breaks confidentiality rules and the law of nature. ie players want the best they can get and will leave options open. we cannot be told becuase to put it in the public domain may mean a rival team who is also trying to get that player will then put pressure on that guy ton join them. possibly by paying him more. possibly by allowing him more time to go home. OR some other allownance.
So what do you actually want to see that would stop such dumb posts. IF you want insider information. tough. you will have to wait. All teams are in the same boat. we are no different. we have to be patient. Let CH do his job. he knows what and who he wants. He cant let you in on his secrets. I could phone him and ask but he wouldnt tell me. I suppose he could put out a few red herrings but it would all come down to haunt him in the end cos you would critisise him for that as well.
Mind you. You could also be putting our a red herring. You could be yanking our tails. Which is it?

[ferrarilover]

I assume Mr Hargreaves is aware that all out of contract players are free to sign for clubs now? It isn’t just ours that can go elsewhere – the doors do actually function in both directions. Or at least I assume they do. Perhaps that’s another area in which we’re cutting back. I mention it because seemingly whilst all around are increasing their bulging numbers, our depleted squad continues to be neglected.

Yet again, we’ll be the last to burst into action. Whilst our place in the League is gone, our role of picking up the left-over’s clearly isn’t. Don’t fret though – we’ll act quickly enough to offer some of the dross nobody else wanted, £20 a week more than they’d get stacking shelves in their local Tesco’s. If the club wanted to dispel any concerns that last season’s debacle was terminal, with this plan of total inactivity they’re going about it all wrong.

Don’t get me wrong though, this was always going to be a very different experience to our previous sabbatical in this division. As a club, we don’t have sufficient money, intent or belief to make our second stay a short one. Whilst we have a small squad again – that is where the similarities end. Last time we had a (relatively) large budget, a manager that knew the division intimately and a feel-good factor from the boardroom to the terraces. This season we have...none of those things.

We evidently don’t have a competitive budget. I don’t consider the manager a complete fool, I’m sure he’d like to be doing some business. But it looks increasingly like he can’t afford to compete for signings – even at this level. He’ll have to wait until the players he tries to sign have two options - sign for us or sign on. So the quality we’ll be getting is obvious.

The manager himself has done the square root of f-all to convince me he’s the man for the job. I certainly don’t advocate making changes until a manager has had sufficient time to prove one way or the other if he’s good enough. Hargreaves certainly hasn’t had that yet, but I didn’t see anything from him last season to convince me he’s got the tools. Hopefully he’s grown into the job over the summer. Time will tell on that.

As for a ‘feel-good factor’, I’ve personally never looked forward to a season less. It’ll take all my energy to get there for our first home game (But I will, because that’s what we do isn’t it?) But I won’t enjoy it. Of that I’m absolutely convinced. There isn’t the slightest buzz about a ‘new challenge’. We’re in a division which contains ex-league clubs with bigger support and better prospects than us, and ‘new money’ clubs that have no history, little support but bucket loads of cash. I console myself with the thought that there must be at least 4 or 5 clubs that don’t fit into either of those categories, and we’ll finish above them. Ultimately though, my guess is we’ll be closer to the bottom of the division next season than the top. And if we exit the ‘Skrill’ any time in the next 5 years, it’s much more likely to be down than up.

I’ll probably leave it there. Too much positivity makes me giddy. See you again in September for more happy thoughts. Up the Gulls!

In fact, I've had to fire up the pooter on the basis of the silliness (I don't want to call it stupidity, because, despite his very odd views on Benyon, I'm convinced that Shane isn't stupid).

Paragraph one allows that we're free to sign free agents, then paragraph two complains of our "picking over left-overs". Released players are left overs. They're the old shit that aren't wanted, even by people who have had the opportunity to form relationships with them, see them every day in training and have useful service from them for a number of years or months. Why the hell would we want that?

Last season, we signed about 3,000,000 free strikers. Not one of them could pick a goal out of a line-up, let alone actually score one of their very own. Given the option of all of those free agents or one £20,000 equivalent who gets 20 goals, I think I know which one you'd choose.

Also, you bemoan the fact that all the other sides are signing people, but does that really matter? A quick look on the BBC website shows that today, Rovers have signed midfielder Stuart Sinclair. He's played 37 career games (despite being 26) and never scored a goal.
FGR have singed another Sinclair from Salisbury, this time it's Rob (no relation). He's 24, he's played just over 100 games in his life and scored the princely sum of 4 goals. Alright, he's a midfielder and he's got more goals than Damon Lathrope, but I'd hardly suggest he's too much of a loss to us.

Next up, John Oster moving to Gateshead. A name I know, but it turns out that that's probably because he gets transferred, on average, every 15 minutes. In a 20 year career, he's had 13 separate deals with 11 different clubs. In all those years, he's never come close to playing a full season (he averages 17 games/season). It's probably no surprise, therefore, that he averages a couple of goals a season.
Dan Fitchett next, to Aldershot from Salisbury. This one's a youngster, so not really fair to make judgements about him. One goal per three games is a decent return, but it's tempered by the idea that he was one of only two Salisbury players to get more than 5 goals all season. It shouldn't be all that tough to score when you're basically the only person near the opposition's goal. So, perhaps one on whom we could have taken a punt, but I'd hardly categorise him as "the one that got away".
Perhaps we can look to the more illustrious clubs in the SW. The only one worth mentioning is Bristol Rovers and, as you're aware, they've signed our cast off, so I don't think we can really complain about that too much.

I haven't listed them all here, but to be honest, a casual but proper look through the recent transfers on the BBC website really doesn't chuck up anyone I'd have been overly delighted if we'd have signed. Rankine (Michael, not Isaiah) sounds like a good capture for Gateshead, until you realise he's scored 11 goals in the last 4 years.

I don't understand the point about being in a division with clubs with more fans than us. So what? Have you learned nothing from all these years of watching football? Yeovil are a Championship side while Portsmouth are struggling along in L2. Accrington finished above Bristol Rovers. Plymouth are extremely lucky not to be in the Conference having been garbage for the last few years while the likes of us and Aldershot were making the playoffs. If attendances made the first iota of difference, they'd not bother playing matches, they'd just rank sides by the capacity of the grounds in a division and decide promotion and relegation in that way. Ok, some clubs have more money than us, but then, FGR have had pots of cash for a few years now and, with the best will in the world, haven't got near promotion.

You feel like hanging yourself, but there's really no justification for it. We've gone down one division and we probably aren't going to pull up any trees for the next couple of seasons. However, it's hardly the end of the world. L2 is utter, utter garbage and it really wouldn't surprise me if the standard of play was actually higher in the Conference than we witnessed last year. Without the fear of the trapdoor to the non-league looming over clubs, they can be more expressive, more patient and play more football. There is no panicking from teams near the bottom come Christmas. Yes, there's some proper shit (Hyde spring to mind), but it's unlikely to be anything like as bad as you think. Looking back at the DVDs of the Conference years, if we play the type of pacy, wide football that we saw last time, I'd be absolutely bloody delighted.

Don't panic, Capt. Mainwaring.

Matt.

[Scott Brehaut]

We’re in a division which contains ex-league clubs with bigger support and better prospects than us, and ‘new money’ clubs that have no history, little support but bucket loads of cash.

A bit like League two then

I understand your concerns - I can't say that I'm overly happy at the situation we are in currently either, but I'm willing to see how the next few weeks pan out before worrying (and even then, given that I'm one of the most rose tinted glasses type of guys you will meet, it won't be a massive panic)

In Greavsie we trust (if only because we have little choice - we could go off and support another club I guess....)

[leetufc]

I love the positivity of being a Torquay fan :~D

I don't the situation is anywhere near as bad as the OP is claiming. We have so far lost nobody I am concerned about:
Poke - Good keeper on his day, but severely lacking in confidence, and couldn't get in our team towards the end of the season
Nicho - Fan favourite, but off the pace now, and replacable
Cruise - Potential to be decent, but hasn't shown it in two years, no reason to expect he will do now.
Lathrope - A good player in his role, but limited in ability. Has joined a club who just avoided relegation so shows how much he was valued by other clubs.
Mansell - Has looked poor the last two years, and as with Nicho, time is catching up. A change is good for both parties.
Labadie - Would have been excellent in the Conf, but was always unlikely to stay if we went down, even before the lengthy ban.
Craig - As above with Cruise
Stevens - Always a short term signing, no great loss

Have left off Bodin as although out of contract, isn't going to sign for anyone until he has recovered from injury.

I also think we have signed two good players in Briscoe (proven good player at this level) and Young (a decent prospect with lots of experience for his age.

When we compare this with Rovers - they have signed similar. Experienced players at this level (Mansell, Taylor, Sinclair) and one young prospect (Gosling - who's had far less experience than Young). But they have also lost O'Toole and Harrold, who are a greater loss than anyone we have lost.

Our problem this season is being lumbered with players that CH doesn't want, and probably on high money (Tonge, Hawley, Benyon, Chappell, Downes). Unfortunately until we move these on, we won't have much to play with in the market. As a result, this season is always likely to be a consolidation until CH can move on the high earners so he has more budget to utilise.

[Fonda]

'Stupid' and 'Dumb' (cheers Gloster). Got to be honest it's not what I hoped for but if the cap fits I'm happy to wear it...

Matt, appreciate your thoughts on the quality of signings being made. You're right, we've not missed out on any major talents - but at this level, major talents are not really on the horizon. A good few players who will do well at this level have moved to clubs we'll be facing next season. I look forward to us signing some.

With regards the size of support of some of our competitors, of course size doesn't equal success at all. But what better support does give you is more money. And more money provides the ability to sign better players. There are of course no guarantees of any such thing. But it increases your chances. If a manager with a big budget, does as good a job as a manager with a small budget, the manager with the big budget is likely to be more successful. It's simplistic, but accurate.

Oh, and I'm not in any way depressed. I'm fully aware of our prospects, and am able to function fully with that knowledge. As I said, I was hoping for some inspiration. I didn't believe my post to be stupid or dumb. In actual fact I've done nothing other than stating the obvious. Can to do so really be considered 'dumb'? I'dargue that to suggest we'll be 'pulling up tree's, aiming for promotion' would be dumb. But then I'm a pessimist I suppose...