TUFC TV - CLARKE OSBORNE

[merse btpir]

Well all credit to Keating, although this sounds like internship. Never the less he has done well and I hope he gets a proper contract with somebody soon.

Well they aren't going to offer him a contract this season are they and could lose him at any time such as they did with Durrell Berry first time round in the same circumstances.

Even though he has been without a contract for some time, my son was offered a short term deal to 'prove himself' at a League 1 club where the train fares to and from training each week would have come to over a hundred quid. They refused to pay them, he declined those terms (not necessarily through principle but because he simply couldn't ~ and neither could I ~ afford them) and life went on. He's received a two year contract offer from a National League club for the next two seasons and will most likely accept that; but it is tough out there for all but the very few.

[Soupdragon]

I accept that he has certain powers, but my point remains that he has to act within the law to the letter. Powers granted to Local Authorities are not unlimited, and a decent lawyer may be able to find holes in actions taken. The way that the ACV is being treated is a case in point. I am not a lawyer, and not trying to be a barrack room lawyer, but I do know that the use of administrative powers at local level is a legal minefield.

I don't disagree. On the face of it, it would seem that 'the council' (by which I mean the officers and the legal department, together with whoever it is they are paying to advise them; I have no idea what the mayor's view is), chooses to interpret the acv one way; the rest of us, and - one hopes - the world at large, another. No doubt any legal advisors paid for by the Trust would take the opposite view to the council. As Charles Dickens said: "The one great principle of English law is to make business for itself."

One main stumbling point would seem to be that the Trust, as Michael makes reference to in his newsletter, has limited funds with which to access legal advice.

[gullintwoplaces]

I'd chip in some money. Just waiting for TUST to set an appeal up.

[Plainmoor78]

Has any body seem the number of votes needed to be elected to the council?

Maybe Gilbert should stand.

Think of the publicity from the gimick i suspect he could register his intention to stand now he coukd be crowd funded. and start campagning.

Nice idea, in fact it worked in Hartlepool. Only problem is you have to wait for an election and by the time that happens it is probably going to be too late.

[Plainmoor78]

I don't disagree. On the face of it, it would seem that 'the council' (by which I mean the officers and the legal department, together with whoever it is they are paying to advise them; I have no idea what the mayor's view is), chooses to interpret the acv one way; the rest of us, and - one hopes - the world at large, another. No doubt any legal advisors paid for by the Trust would take the opposite view to the council. As Charles Dickens said: "The one great principle of English law is to make business for itself."

One main stumbling point would seem to be that the Trust, as Michael makes reference to in his newsletter, has limited funds with which to access legal advice.

TUST have a legal eagle on their board, some bloke involved with the Hillsborough inquiry. Why can't he offer his services for free. Also isn't there a bloke who had a senior position in local government at south hams council, he should know a thing or two.

[Plainmoor78]

I'd chip in some money. Just waiting for TUST to set an appeal up.

I'd wait until I see if TUST have a good case, otherwise your just making some rich sponger richer. As sue pointed out by quoting Dickens the legal profession exists to make itself richer.

[merse btpir]

I agree regarding the publicity value of Gilbert running for mayor but do you think for one moment that the club owners would allow their own mascot to be used against them?

Have faith in the trust; just because they aren't shouting form the rooftops about every single thing they do it shouldn't be claimed they aren't doing enough......as I keep saying; talking to the right people in the right places at the right time is much more effective and (yes) there is some considerable talent amongst the TUST personnel.

I can tell you now; had it not been for behind the scenes pressure bearing and talking by TUST the freehold would have been 'on the table' in January.

[merse btpir]

Yes; but you won't be able to use 'Gilbert'. It's not rocket science to work that one out is it!

Put a trust candidate up by all means; but it'll be too late by then

[Soupdragon]

Not if your only trying to raise awareness of the issue you dont need to wait for the election. As i said its a gimmick but given the number of votes most coucil members get (hundereds rather then thousands) it might get a few asking questions about issues raised

Oh, how I hate to rain on people's parade: but do you have any idea how difficult it actually is to get elected?

As I recall, a 'gull' (and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Gilbert, but I could be wrong) declared as a candidate for directly elected mayor back in 2005, on a platform of free parking or some such, but backed off pretty sharpish when he realised just how much he would stand to lose if he didn't get elected (as a minimum, it was £500 to stand and £500 to have an entry in the council's publication, before anything else). Yes, you might raise awareness for a few brief moments, but - believe me - you won't get elected here.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need a much broader spectrum of people representing us, especially at local government level where decisions really do affect our everyday lives, but to try and break the two-party system that has operated for yonks now in Torbay is hugely difficult. There's a single ward in Brixham which is almost a different country; other than that, there has been just one person standing as an independent elected locally in Torbay in about the last 40-odd years.

Barring a by-election, the next Torbay local elections are in May 2019. Being deadly serious, if you want to get elected as an independent, I suggest you start work right now. It will be all the more difficult as we don't have a daily newspaper in the Bay (the WMN sells only 400 copies in Torquay), and barely a weekly one to all extents and purposes anymore, so there's few opportunities for publicity at a local level.

Raising awareness via a website is an idea, but bear in mind that this very site, the top result in any Google search for a TUFC forum, barely makes a dent in the knowledge of TUFC-related matters to either the local population or even to the majority of people who attend TUFC matches. This site, together with the TFF and BTPIR, has been warning for years now about the issues our club has been facing, and it's made no difference at all to the coverage in any local media or the awareness of the average TUFC fan.

If you want to get elected, as a minimum you'll need to deliver regular and frequent newsletters to every single address in your chosen ward to keep your face and name in front of people, and be prepared to hold regular public meetings where either no-one will turn up or people will just want to know what you're going to do about parking or Oldway/the Pavilion. You could work your backside off for the next two years and still get nowhere.

It's not impossible, of course. But if Nick Bye, arguably the most well-known name in local politics, and the sitting incumbent at the time, couldn't win a mayoral election as an independent, then its fair to say that it's not going to be easy for an unknown.

And, speaking personally, I would never give my vote to a gimmick.

[Richinns]

I am sure TUST are actively seeking to get the Asset of Community Value correctly associated with the freehold as they were previously informed was in place. Hopefully this is successful but I think it is important to note that whilst this will provide short term protection for the club (a period for funds to be raised) in truth it will not stop the Council eventually selling to their preferred bidder.
As part of the ACV process - the community has a six month time-frame period to fund raise and acquire the asset should it become available. Great in principle but the trouble is with this 'valuation' of the land. The valuation is not simply based on the land itself but what value (once developed) the Council think this land would/could be worth. You can imagine the figure which would be placed on that say should housing/supermarket/cinema etc etc be planned for the site.
Seeing as the Council are the ones who decide on this purchase figure - should they feel selling to (say GI) would be more valuable to them (or/and how they interpret the benefits to the local area) then they are not likely to be favourable with the desired amount they want for it. The community would have first refusal should they raise the stated amount (but in reality will never be able to do so).

[Gullscorer]

I seem to remember someone saying somewhere on this forum that the value of something is whatever the purchaser is actually paying for it..

[Dazza]

I,m not sure I can agree with the posters. Surely the land value has to be determined by the Council given whatever restraints are on the land re it's development. The Council can't surely just wish restraints away and inflate a value pretendIng the restraints are not there ( much as some ratepayers might well wish). Only by application to the responsible bodies can land restraints be lifted and the sort of dream value being talked about here be realised. That's certainly how I understand it.

[merse btpir]

Well if the 'restraints' mean no-one will bid for it then it has no value does it; hence re-enforcing my view that 'the value of something is whatever the purchaser is actually paying for it'

No buyer=no value!

[Dazza]

Sorry but thats not right I'm afraid. Practically all land has a value - its the amount of that value that is likely to dictate what you pay for it.

[gullintwoplaces]

Sorry but thats not right I'm afraid. Practically all land has a value - its the amount of that value that is likely to dictate what you pay for it.

True, but the value of undeveloped land is heavily influenced by planning potential, which is in turn dependent on planning permission granted by Councils. In other words, Torbay Council can effectively determine the market value of land that it owns.