Quick one for the historians/researchers

[bixieupnorth]

villa in 70/71 season, boro couple years before that

all details here

http://footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Cl ... United.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Trojan 67]

Dammit, Charlie Papa gave me some hope of the sort of answer I wanted, then the wee wee master general Troj rocked up and put a great big spanner in the works with his technicalities! Given that Div 3 South was not full national level football (just southern area) to my mind, despite both being the third tier of English football, L1 is a more advanced level. Given this, I'll take the answer of CP and go with 11th place in L1 being the furthest up the pyramid we have ever been.

Thus, should we go up (whenever, not necessarily this season), we would need to get up above 11th to be seeing, effectively, the best Torquay side ever.

Matt.

Matt now becomes Foxtrot Lima.

As for "master general", inspectors' general is more in keeping with the grand scheme of things.

[Trojan 67]

Matt - Division 3 North and South stopped back in 1958 when it became the a National League.

In 1992 it then became League 2 (the Premiership was born). And then in 2004 League 1 was born with the introduction of the Championship.

In which case, in 1967 / 68 they finished 4th but I don't know if at any time in that season were higher.

At one stage of the 1967/68 season (in March '68) we were 4 points clear at the top with 2 games in hand !!! That is what made the end of season collapse so disappointing.

Saturday March 16th 1968 saw Match Of The Day cover their first ever Division 3 game. Aye, a top of the table match, Torquay v Bury at Plainmoor with Torquay winning 3 - 0.

Bury eventually overtook Torquay (as did Oxford) and gained promotion as runners up to Champions Oxford.

I've seen it reported that Shrewsbury also went up in third place via the playoffs. No they f'ckin did not as playoffs were yet to be dreamed up. Only 2 teams went up from Division 3 in 1967/68.

And yes, Torquay did finish a disappointing 4th behind Shrewsbury.

With Bury and Shrewsbury being in the frame this season, time to lay an old haunting ghost to rest, eh ?

[ferrarilover]

Bugger, so this means that, even if we are top, this lot won't be the highest placed Torquay United ever, DAMMIT. Oh well, Championship it is then.

Matt.

[stefano]

Just to add a little to Trojan's excellent and accurate answer on our highest ever league position, after promotion from Division 4 (now League 2) in 1965/66 we then had three excellent seasons in Division 3 (now League 1). In 1966/67 the highest position we occupied was 2nd towards the end and eventually finished 7th, but it was all very tight and had we won our last two games instead of losing them then we would have been promoted instead of Middlesbrough. That dream was shattered though by a 4-0 hammering by Middlesbrough at Ayresome Park in front of a crowd of 27160 of which I was one of over 1000 Torquay supporters, and then the following week we followed that up with a 4-2 home defeat to already relegated Swansea Town (as they were then). In 1967/68 as outlined by Trojan we did indeed head the division for much of the season and at one point were several points ahead with games in hand, and perhaps the kiss of death was the BBC commentator Coleman who said after our 3-0 Match of the Day win over Bury "It looks as if it's just a case of who is going up with Torquay now!". A disastrous Easter and only 3 wins in our last 12 games saw us slip to 4th and Oxford and Bury went up. Once again had we won rather than lost our last two games we would have been promoted in 2nd place on goal average to Oxford.

1968/69 is the most recent highest position we have held. With everybody else having played in the afternoon on the opening day a Saturday evening 3-0 win over Southport saw us top once again on goal average. We were the only team to have kept a clean sheet on the opening day so as positions were then based on goal average (dividing goals against into goals scored) rather than goal difference we were top of the table with a goal average of infinity. We finished a respectable 6th but were a long way adrift that season of the promoted teams Watford and Swindon Town, but the season was memorable for our 2-1 win at Home Park in our first league clash with Argyle for several years.

Since then it's been a rather downhill trend so I am looking forward to topping League 1 next season.

To answer another question on this thread I think posed by Trojan the old Cowshed was demolished and replaced by the Ministand during the Summer of 1967 following our successful first season back in Division 3.

[Trojan 67]

Many thanks stefano for adding further detail. Although it was before my time, we finished runners up to Ipswich during the early/mid 1950's in the former Division 3 South ? Only the champions of the North and South Divisions went up to Division 2 (now the Championship) at that time.

The Cowshed/Mini Stand question regularly crops up in conversation with some insistent it was as late as 1971. I've always known it was it 66/67 but not absolutely sure whether it was the summer of '66 or the summer of '67.

I remember being behind the goal at the Ellacombe End for the opening Division 3 fixture of the 1966/67 season against Reading (Torquay won 3 - 0). I'm just not sure what was behind me, I always thought it was the new Mini Stand. I remember the Cowshed being up at the end of the 1965/66 promotion season from Division 4.

Once again, many thanks stefano.

[stefano]

Many thanks stefano for adding further detail. Although it was before my time, we finished runners up to Ipswich during the early/mid 1950's in the former Division 3 South ? Only the champions of the North and South Divisions went up to Division 2 (now the Championship) at that time.

The Cowshed/Mini Stand question regularly crops up in conversation with some insistent it was as late as 1971. I've always known it was it 66/67 but not absolutely sure whether it was the summer of '66 or the summer of '67.

I remember being behind the goal at the Ellacombe End for the opening Division 3 fixture of the 1966/67 season against Reading (Torquay won 3 - 0). I'm just not sure what was behind me, I always thought it was the new Mini Stand. I remember the Cowshed being up at the end of the 1965/66 promotion season from Division 4.

Once again, many thanks stefano.

Cheers Trojan yes it definitely was the Summer of 1967 the Ministand was erected. I was at the school next door then known as Homelands at the time and regularly used to pop in to watch the construction work.

We started our first season back in Division 3 with the Cowshed still at the Ellacombe end and I remember watching quite a few games from there ... and what a brilliant start that 3-0 win against Reading was with an early cool lob from Robin Stubbs on a baking hot August day.

I would agree 1956/57 was the nearest we actually came to promotion to Division 2 (now Championship) but I had ignored it due to earlier debate on this thread that it was only a regional division and not a national one. So close though finishing 2nd on goal difference to Ipswich Town who 5 years later won Division 1 (now Premiership) under manager Alf Ramsay.

What a tense final day that must have been as well to match any we have had in more recent times. Ipswich won 2-0 away (I think at Southampton) while we were held 1-1 at Selhurst Park by Crystal Palace, with the Palace full back Jack Edwards who later became our first team coach in the late '60's clearing the ball off the line in the last minute!

[ferrarilover]

How is it that a geezer who clearly knows so much about the club has only just joined up here and begun posting?

Matt.

[Fletch]

Us Homelands "old boys" know a thing or two about the club Matt. Including watching them training on our sports pitch up Quinta Road

[ferrarilover]

Doubtless you do Mr Fletch, but where as we can't get some people to post on here enough (see our Argentinean friend, above), others don't know when to bog off!

Do you remember the aforementioned third tier season?

Matt.

[Trojan 67]

Stefano and Fletch :

I started senior school at Westhill in '67 and played many times at Quinta for the combined Westhill/Homelands football team "Westlands". Also took the short walk over from Westhill to do metalwork at Homelands.

The regular Homelands contingent of my "Westlands" playing days included Stuart Fleet, Ray McMannus (Elvis), Mervin Porter, Phil Walters, Nigel Froude, Mike Langmead, Chris Horrell and my old mate from Ellacombe school and Torre Trojans team mate Steve Pope.

I missed the demolition/rebuild of the Cowshed/Mini Stand as I spent most of my "in between schools" summer holidays on Torre Abbey Sands, Beacon Cove or jumping off the Banjo. When it rained I was at the Marine Spa.

The Torquay Boys Grammar School playing contingent of the intake of '67 included Trojans and Ellacombe schoolmates John Rosslee, Les Burnett, Steve Aggett and Peter Lewis (son of TUFC Dennis Lewis).

From the same '67 intake, Trojans Andy Pougoirios (Kirkstead College), Mark Tremlett and Colin Lee (Cuthbert Mayne), Dave Critchlow and Simon Crabtree (TBGS) and Chris Scott (Audley Park).

I can remember things from 45 years ago in an instant but I can't remember things from 4 minutes ago. Now where did I put my cider ?

[stefano]

It looks as though I am a few years ahead of you Trojan but not by much. I started at Homelands in 1963 and being a bit thick left in 1968 to start work. In my fifth year it was the first time we had combined Homelands & Westhill sporting teams. For football I was the captain of course!

That ferrarihoover is a bit of a character isn't he asking how come a guy who knows so much about the club suddenly comes on here posting? I don't profess to know any more about the club than anyone else but I think it was Ferrari on this thread who said he wasn't around in the League 1 days. Only 7 years ago whereas I am 110! Ok I exaggerate! Trouble is with this posting thing it's these modern computers that us old 'uns have got to get our heads around.

Only bothered to post really as I have read this site for ages even before the crash and on this occasion I thought I could add some information to a thread in support of what Trojan had posted as I was actually there when it happened.

Just to put Ferrarilover's mind at rest my first game to watch at the age of 11 years was 7 September 1963 against Rochdale with Dave Hancock securing a 1-0 win, I managed to survive not being crushed in a crowd of 20,000 on 9 January 1965 in a 3-3 draw against Tottenham Hotspur, I made my Western League debut for the reserves on 11 October 1969 in a 2-0 Western League win against the champions that season Glastonbury, I played in a classic FA Youth Cup tie against Argyle in 1969 where we had 1-1 at Plainmoor, 1-1 at Home Park after extra time, then lost 3-1 at Home Park in the 3rd game (the whole Argyle team being full time or apprentice professionals), and I cried when we got relegated to the Conference.

It is nice that I still get a buzz when I enter Plainmoor the same as I did when I was 11 years of age. I still always believe that it is going to happen for us, and I hope ferrarilover that when you are 110 you will have the same brilliant memories of a proper football club that I have got!

[Fletch]

Pftttt. Few years behind ya Trojan!

Depends which one you mean Matt? The one after our 2nd trip to Wembly I certainly do. Started so brightly beating the monkey hangers after being down to 10 men for nigh on half the match (Loram sent off I think). Thought we would be happily mid table but it soon went downhill from there. Posted back to the mainland from SHFNI that summer so it made games easier to get to than having to fly

[cambgull]

That ferrarihoover is a bit of a character isn't he asking how come a guy who knows so much about the club suddenly comes on here posting? I don't profess to know any more about the club than anyone else but I think it was Ferrari on this thread who said he wasn't around in the League 1 days. Only 7 years ago whereas I am 110! Ok I exaggerate! Trouble is with this posting thing it's these modern computers that us old 'uns have got to get our heads around.

I wouldn't worry about Matt, he gets an A* for knowledge about sarcasm but is bordering on a fail for knowledge of the club. God forbid he'd even know the likes of Rodney Jack, Buckle when he played for us, Darren Moore, Lee Sharp.. hell, even Chris Waddle and Neville Southall. Although granted, Sammy Collins and the likes were before my time.

[Fletch]

I wouldn't worry about Matt, he gets an A* for knowledge about sarcasm but is bordering on a fail for knowledge of the club. God forbid he'd even know the likes of Rodney Jack, Buckle when he played for us, Darren Moore, Lee Sharp.. hell, even Chris Waddle and Neville Southall. Although granted, Sammy Collins and the likes were before my time.

Yeah....Bloody incomers

RJ and JR up front. What a pairing