Torquay United v Port Vale - 23/2/12

[Dave]

Totaly agree Philgull, and it's the one thing that has frustrated me the most. I have never brought in to the argument that some have put forward, that this squad is rubbish and worthy of being 19th in the league, ok things may have tailed off as the second half went on, but for the most part proved that our squad was capable of competing with the very best in this league.

We seemed to go to Aldershot with the attitude lets not lose this game and play for a draw, said on Tuesday night what a dangerous game to play as proved, they were there to be beaten, and if Taylor had, had the balls to line the team up like Knill did yesterday we may well be talking about next season rather than still wondering whether we will be a league 2 side or not.

markw. Agreed, we talked after the game yesterday as you do, I was asked by a few what I thought, and my answer was it is not about throwing wholesale loan players at this problem, different tactics yesterday showed we do have enough already in the squad, but a little bit of help is needed.

Easton and Lathrope are both defence minded players, and Lee Mansell has always played his best stuff as a box to box player in support of attacks or in support of defence, he has never been a creative ball passer in my opinion.

The one thing O'Kane was so good at, was letting the ball run across him and then drive the attacking play forward, how many times in recent weeks have we seen the ball played inside to either Mansell or Easton to see both of them stop and turn backwards. There is nothing wrong with setting the ball backwards if you have options, however both of them do it, time and time again.

And for me thats it, one attack minded midfielder if not Nathan Craig, then bring some one in, if Knill is thinking along the lines of a striker, then send Benyon back, but for nothing else is needed.

[AustrianAndyGull]

How frustrating is this?! Under Ling and Taylor we played dull, defensive football and lost by the odd goal, yesterday we played more adventurous attacking football and lost by the odd goal.
How different could things be if we had played like this against Aldershot on Tuesday or all the matches before....
But, the past is passed. The future is bright, things are looking better.

Absolutely spot on Phil. I said this even back in September when it became apparent (away from home especially) that we were going out not to lose the game every time. Like you say, how different things could be if we had gone at some games like we do at home. We certainly would be safe by now that's for sure. Again, i know i have said this before and don't like saying it due to Martins situation but IMO it is his mainly his fault we are in this mess. He has made some great signings and managed the squad really admirably but when it comes to motivation and 'get up and go' as it were. It just isn't there. If anyone wants to come on and defend Ling then i haven't got a problem with that but i just would like you to ask yourself this question. If things carried on the way they were, would you have put your house on us staying up?

Anyway, like Phil said, that is all past and now it's present. If we play like we did yesterday for the remainder of games and maybe add someone then we'll be fine. Message to Knill though, we must play like that in away games too. According to Martin, a point away from home was a good one. We need wins. A couple of wins are better than 2 or 3 draws ( which we don't look like getting anyway judging on most of our away showings in the last 2 or 3 months). Accrington are a worse team than us, i'm not underestimating them of course, but they are a worse team, have worse players IMO and have a worse record in the division. If we don't turn up there next weekend looking to put them to bed then we REALLY are in lots and lots of trouble.

All we can do is see how this week pans out but there is a real opportunity we could get 4 points from these next 2 games at least and that would be a massive start. We have to be confident as the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

[hector]

At the start of last season, after Buckle's departure and the signing of players like Chris McPhee and Atieno, I think that most thought we might struggle. Some key players had departed post-Buckle's departure. What we didn't know was how effective, Olejnik, Howe, Saah and Morris would be and with the likes of Ellis and Robertson and of course, O'Kane, we probably had a better starting eleven than the season before.

But if you looked at the rest of the team, Oastler, Lathrope, Nicholson, Mansell as a midfielder, Stevens etc - plenty of questions had been asked about those players. As it had, they all performed out of their skins last season and the solidity of a defence with Ellis/Robertson/Saah as your composite of centre-backs and the unbeatable Olejnik in goal, really defined us as a one-nil winning ream, so solid, defensively we were. With the guile of O'Kane creating chances for Mansell and Howe, we really did have it all, until the side ran out of steam at the finish line.

Perhaps, then were the warning signs. If O'Kane was off his game, then we struggled and even last season, once we became defined as this 1-0 team, you knew we had to score first, that chasing games for that team was difficult. Perhaps last year, a team that had looked ordinary on paper at the start of the season, overachieved.

Ling's error, as he said in many an interview, was perhaps trying to do the same things as last year, with a team that wasn't as good. Missing Olejnik and O'Kane is enormous and whilst our team is no where near as bad as the team that succumbed to relegation in 2007 and not as bad as teams that we have seen in the past, it really is built to defend. It is not capable of chasing or attacking games. People talk about yesterday but to be honest, we never looked dangerous or like we could score. I think people are clutching at straws if they think that yesterday they witnessed the seeds of recovery being sown.

To me, the team looked like it has done for a few months, a huffing and puffing side, lacking any guile. Solid defensively but nothing to hint at any threat of goals. It makes you appreciate, perhaps, how big a miss as well, Ian Morris is.

Essentially, our team is very ordinary at best. This team, as it is, will struggle to get those points we need. As for those watching and raving about Benyon, yesterday, then I must have been at a different game. I saw a player who looked too unfit, too small, too slow, too easily bundled off the ball to be a league 2 forward. He was never going to get anything out Port Vale's big centre-backs.

Hopefully, Alan Knill is on the phone today, trying to recruit additional players. I think we need at least three, up front, in midfield and possibly on the wing and if Downes is injured for longer term, then perhaps a defender too. The club have stated they will do whatever they can to preserve league status. There was talk of a forward coming in January and look what we ended up with: Logan on trial and Benyon. This time the intent has to be backed up with real action and who cares if it costs? It will cost a hell of a lot more if we go down, in terms of revenue and the ring-fenced money for youth development etc.

[Dave_Pougher]

Probably one of the best posts I've read for a while from hector there. Not just because it loosely agrees with the way I see things but I just can't see how we can change things or do with whats required with less then three additions, esp. if Downes is injured or if Rene picks up anymore bookings. People will disagree, obviously, but my point is will Alan K be allowed to do that?

Will our powers to be see Benyon and cover for Downes or Rene as enough financial expenditure?

Lets wait and see,,, or have we done enough of that already?

[Dave]

Everyone has there opinions, we can not spend any time worrying about Rene Howe getting suspended and what is the point of bringing another striker just incase he does. Rene Howe is 4 yellow cards from a tot up suspension we only have 13 games left, if Howe was to be booked 1 in every 3 games he would only miss the last match ( if I have my maths right) so there simply is no point thinkning along those lines.

If Downes is out we already have Angus McDonald so we do not need to spunk cash there either. The worst thing we can do now is panic and just sign 3 players, as said Knill has make sure we do not already have the right players here, he should have a fair idea after the Wycombe game, and any players brought in have to be better than what we already have, you can sign 23 players it does not gaurantee anything.

As said the worst thing we can do as a club right now is panic, and yes Dave.P the board has made it clear Alan Knill has there full backing including loan signings.

[Dave_Pougher]

DON'T PANIC CAPT MAINWARING.....

My point is,,, will the differential between what Alan Knill wants to do and what messers Baker and Phillips allow him to do be enough?

Their probably wellbeing with TQY's best financial issues at heart, I don't doubt that for a second, but I do think they have been penny wise and pound foolish this season, a loan signing to check out if he was good enough to sign in Jan. may have prevented us being in the situation we now find ourselves in. Easy to be wise after the event though.

[Dave]

Agree, I started posting concerns about where this season was going back in early December, I felt the good ship Torquay had a small hole in it, and needed some investment to fill the hole before it got to big, i.e a bit of help via the loan market. I feel the board sat and waiting just a bit to long to see if results were going to turn in our favour, now the water is gushing in and we might not be able to stop it.

I do however feel after Saturday performance and we are still 4pts above the line that it will not take much to swing things our way . To me we lack a creative/positive attacking type midfielder that is were we should be looking, think at the back we are ok, and wings for me Macklin showed he can do the job side, whether it is a case of going with Bodin the other side, having another look at Thompson, or bringing in help there I do not know the answer.

As for up front, Benners did ok Saturday, he did look short of games as he fialed to connect with a couple, have we got time to get him to speed, again who knows, I am confident that Knill will get the backing to bring the players he wants though, the board will know relegation could cost them more than they have to lose.

[cambgull]

Personally, I'd like to see a creative midfielder used and a left winger brought in. We need to start playing through balls for Benyon or Howe to run onto. Possibly a left back too if Cruise isn't up to scratch.

Howe is good enough to drop back into the 'Rooney Role but we still need a bit of creativity too. On the right, I think Macklin and Thompson should be fine with Leadbitter at right back. Through the middle we have 3 players very capable of playing defensively.

The main question marks for me are definitely over left back, left wing, attacking mid and the fast striker. All of those positions have 2 players who can play in them so if they aren't good enough, we need to bring someone in.

[hector]

Do we know that it was the board that refused to bring players in or did not allow a loan signing? I'm not disputing that view, it is just I had heard that the directors had offered Martin Ling the opportunity to sign players on loan but Ling preferred to work with what he had. I guess that had worked for him before and perhaps he trusted the squad but maybe we shouldn't be too quick to knock the board if they had facilitated the signing of players for Martin Ling but he just chose not to sign any.