Accrington Stanley v Torquay United - 2/3/13

[stevegull]

Cheers for your thoughts Andy and I just hope Knill can try and install some more attacking flair before the next game. Sounds like we've now got the Rene Howe that Bristol Rovers claimed to have played for them.

Also, Andy, can you get off the fence about your opinions on the Accrington area?

[AustrianAndyGull]

OK, so Accrington away, once the little un had been dropped off en route via Rotherham i set off on my merry way over the M62 leaving behind a gloriously beautiful sunny day and headed into the murky greyness that hung over Lancashire. No lie, my partner said that in Chesterfield today it has been lovely and i go to Accrington and the sun doesn't shine. I don't know why it should always be under the cover of greyness but it is pendle witch country after all and maybe they put a curse on the place for experiencing an early case of vctimisation at the assizes.

Anyway, i battled coughing fits, dizzy spells and fatigue all symptomatic of my recent illness and made it into Accrington just before 2pm and i parked up as damn near the ground as anyone will ever get at any game without paying for it. Bloody bonus! ( was gonna say Brucie bonus then but i didn't ). I got out, nipped to the papershop over the road and then made my way for a look around the ground. I walked into the club shop, well, club cupboard as it should be renamed and had a walk round. I literally did walk around myself. I basically entered, did a 360 degree spin on the spot and left and that was all i needed. I did manage to have a netter to the lad who worked in there about how sh*t their ground was compared to ours but he was a good lad, he told me about his trips to Torquay and how he and 6 others did the Plymouth weekend this year.

Anyway, i bought a programme and left to go into the ground. It cost me £17 to stand and i had a brief 'kerfuffle' with the ticket booth guy as i was sure it was £15 but anyway, they got the extra 2 quid out of me and what value for money it was. What an absolute bargain! I passed the catering van where i inhaled the delicious aroma of frazzling animals, what animals were actually inside the things they were selling God only knows but they looked popular. A squirrel burger wouldn't have looked out of place. I walked past the gents public conveniences to gain access to the terrace and thanked The Good Lord that i didn't suffer a chronic bout of poopoo whilst i was there. It was just half a portakabin, in pitch darkness with high steps to get into it. It's a death trap!

I got onto the terrace and in the 5 minutes of quiet contemplation i had looking around the ground whilst i waited for Bengull, Alexgulls and the rest to arrive i had thoughts of suicide on 3 occasions and once thought to myself, "What the f*ck are you doing here Andy? This is mental!".

Then the cavalry arrived and eventually the game got underway, so therefore i'll talk about the game which is what you guys really want to be reading about. We began really brightly forcing a first minute corner and pressing forward but without really creating much. We enjoyed some nice possession and really did move the ball around well at times but we couldn't create that clear cut opening nor could we really test their keeper in that good spell. Accrington battled their way back into the game and put us under some pressure later on in the half, Poke tipping away shot after shot, one a particularly admirable save as i saw the ball swerving in the air and he managed to get a strong block on it. He punced corners and crosses and we escaped.

Second half we had a really good 5 or 10 minute spell where we had a few chances, Bodin fizzed one over from a tight angle and there were claims for penalties, one on Howe who fell in the box under pressure and one on Saah who was clattered into. I've seen the Howe ones given but it wasn't conclusive, the Saah one was a definate penalty. The ref was actually a vagina today and he got a few obvious decisions totally wrong. Again it was to be an unproductive half for us as we huffed and puffed but lacked that confidence and edge to really go for it. The 3 points were there for the taking today as Accrington were just so poor but they nearly nicked it at the death but their 'goal' was ruled out for offside.

POKE: 8 Man of the match, averted everthing that was thrown his way including a real quality save low down to his left. Got lucky with the bounce from a few punches where perhaps he could have caught but overall superb.

OASTLER: 6 Solid enough, got stuck in and made some great challenges.

NICHOLSON: 6 Not as bad as he has been, some really poor deliveries yet again especially from some corners.

SAAH: 8 Solid and dependable and worked well with McDonald and marshalled the back 4.

McDONALD: 7 Showed inexperience which is to be expected but knew his job, battled and competed well and that was enough. Didn't panic about anything.

LATHROPE: 6 Gives the ball away, poor distribution, poor game overall.

MANSELL: 7 Not a bad display, made some important challenges in front of goal.

BODIN: 7 Can see that he is trying, i think part of me accepts that he is young and so chooses the wrong options and part of me knows that he isn't really that good. Either way, today, got into some good positions and all you want him to do is get his head together and run to goal, looks to pass rather than shoot and often wastes brilliant opportunities himself. It's partly a lack of confidence i accept.

JARVIS: 7 Ran around and worked really hard but never really a sniff of a goal. Credit to the team though.

HOWE: 6 Looks a bit disinterested at the moment, showed some frustration and dissent in the second half. Never got a look in at a chance and thoroughly disappointing.

BENYON: 7 Put the work in but limited opportunities.

Can not for the life of me fathom Knills substitutions. Leadbitter was brought on and i've no problem with that. Then he makes no other subs. It's bloody weird. We were playing half decent against a team there for the taking, if we had took a risk and put some pace up there then we could have caused them problems. If we don't take risks ( especially if there is nobody else to come in to the club ) with the players we have in games that pan out like this one did then we can't accumulate enough points i'm afraid. A draw is good but it won't be enough if all we get from now until the end of the season are the odd random draws. We need wins and i strongly believe that today we could have got it if Knill had made all 3 positive substitutions.

Does anyone have a reason why Knill would be doing this with the subs because i find it weird. I'm not having a go i'm just questioning the rationale behind it.

Overall, the performance was far better than i could ever expected but it was against a poor side. These beat Rochdale 3-0 and we capitulated 1-0 at Rochdale the other week so how bad must we be? There were encouraging signs for an away game but with the ones remaining ( Daggers, Northampton, Southend, Morecambe and Gillingham ) i'd say we'd be lucky to get a couple of draws from them never mind a win. Today was a wasted opportunity and i felt that Knill didn't quite understand the severity of the situation. There is no time to wait and see, no time to get things going gradually, he should have slung on all 3 attacking subs and gone for the points in this and if we had lost then so what, we're still in as much brown stuff regardless and now we have to go to the places mentioned above when we can't even score at Accrington or Rochdale and hope to get a win or two. It's just not going to happen. Totally bizarre management IMO.

The problem i saw is the forward players not moving enough or giving the midfielders / defenders options to pass to them. It is very static at times and thus the midfielders have to hang on to the ball or pass it sideways. More activity from the so called attackers needs to be increased 100%, we also need to bring in a couple of strikers. Big f*ck off hulking strikers who can head, plod, get stuck in and bring others into play. Failure to bring strikers in now even at this late stage and we WILL be relegated next month, it's as plain and simple as that.

Oh and the crowd, a pitiful 1,197 of which i reckon 100 were Gulls. Embarrassing. I fully understandthey were a non league club for many years and that they are struggling at the moment but their whole set up is non-progressive and they deserve to back in non league. One thing is for sure, i am NEVER going back there again. Twice is enough. I can't face the morbid suicidal thoughts again!

It was good to get out of the house after being ill even though i've had to pick the little un back up from Rotherham, drive back home to Chesterfield, bath and change the little un and read books about monkeys that live in space and try and get her to bed. I'm knackered, smacked up to my eyeballs on tablets but am i having a beer? Too right i bloody am!!!! Good to enjoy the company of Ben, Alex and Kirsty ( i think ? ), and i hope Kirsty got herself and the little bairn home to Birmingham ok.

Cheers all!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Oh and message to Accrington Stanley, THE STORE FIRST STADIUM?!! In what way does your miniscule, dilapidated, squalid death trap ground constitute a 'stadium'. Old Trafford is a stadium, your ground is a dump. It needs bulldozing and turning into a community allotment because it truly is a pile of sh*t!

[AlexGulls]

Games been summed up rather well by Jeff and Andy. We had our moments and if we took a bit more risk and played with a bit more movement (something seriously lacking in our recent performances) then we would of won fairly comfortably they were dire and didn't cause too many problems. Some of there fans and manager are claiming there goal was onside but it would of been an injustice if they had won despite us being fairly average they were still poor. I can see them going down if they play like that more often than not. Shocking attendance as well less than 1200 fans there and it looked less than that as well.

[AlexGulls]

http://www.accringtonstanley.co.uk/index.php/newsy/5276

What game was he watching? In no way did they deserve the win from that game.

[bengull]

It is a measure of how disastrous our current plight is when we are delighted with a 0-0 draw today - anything to stop the losing run- when really 3 were there for the taking against an equally desperate Accrington side. With a little bit more adventure or bravery we could have landed the fatal blow and for me Mr Knill's choice of personnel on the bench is baffling. Leaving vital game changers in Yeoman and Macklin sitting in the stand makes little sense, as does having Leadbitter, Cruise AND Morris all on the bench. Equally annoying was the lack of a change- a bit of impetus- into proceedings with 10 minutes to go. Maybe stopping the rot was the most crucial thing but I can't stress enough how poor Accrington were and how much they were there for the taking.

Andy has summed up the atmosphere of the day perfectly, Accrington really is a place to endure, not enjoy, I can not understand how it continues to pass league standards really. It is a rushed mix of scaff-holding, concrete and corrugated iron all mish-mashed together with a bit of grass thrown in the middle. The toilets there make Exeter City's facilities look like Buckingham palace in comparison, whilst one 'stand' has to be seen to be believed. It really hits home how difficult it is to sustain league football in towns that really just do not care about it very much. 1197 is an embarrassing attendance and that is even with a rather surprising boost of 120 from the yellow army. If we stay up this season you would have to say justice has prevailed considering how much money we have spent on making our club a professionally run outfit, whilst they seemingly get away with spending nothing.

Consecutive defeats run now laid to rest, hopefully the confidence can return and we start heading up the table, reinforcements definitely required. May write more tomorrow.

[brucie]

I am not sure I would describe Macklin as a "vital game changer" - been here for ages and done precisely nothing. Now out the squad again. There is a pattern there surely? - Yeoman may be one for next year but as Knill has alluded to we need experience at the moment.
Yes Knill hasn't used many subs but its been obvious all season that the players in reserve are not really good enough.
Leadbitter has done well of late. 3 points would have been great - but to lose to another late goal yesterday would have been a disaster.
In the circumstances I am more than happy with that substitution.

[bengull]

I agree with you brucie, better to stick with a point on this occasion,a loss might well have finished us off, not upset at that approach at all given the circumstances, would have taken a 0-0 with both hands before setting off. Thought we defended pretty well to be honest, especially under one sustained spell of pressure in the first half.

However there is very little to get excited about in the final third. Bodin produces glimpses of brilliance throughout the game but its far too sporadic, Mansell, Lathrope and Jarvis all put in 100% effort but creativity and conviction of the final ball is sadly lacking. All too often it's sideways or back to the fullbacks, not at all incisive.

That suggests we are relying on Benyon and Howe to create something themselves throughout the entire 90 minutes and though they try manfully, that is a tough ask with the little they have to feed off. If we are playing two up top I really don't see how changing one of the front men is going to alter the gameplan too much. Yeoman has shown he can make a nuisance of himself, Macklin has pace we should really try and exploit. Why not try him upfront? Perhaps calling them vital game changers was excessive but it was just disheartening to turn up and see them both in the stand, you sort of accepted we would never 'go for it'

When a new manager comes in you would like to think every player is given a fair crack of the whip, all start with a clean slate, and whilst there is still 11 games to prove that is the case, I have my doubts. In saying that I am not privy to how well the players train, perhaps that is where their development and attitudes are most telling.

Bottom line is the only way we are going to stay up is by start scoring some goals, not losing the match after 70 minutes is fine, but in the last 20 minutes we need to push on if we are going to be able to pick up the results we need.

This is not a negative post as such, some of our possession and linking up was excellent, and I can't fault the attitude or work rate of the players one bit. Just a bit galling that when we had Accrington on the ropes in the second half we couldn't land that blow. They are a much worse team than us.

[EdGull]

New to the forum. Not posted before. Probably won't again.

I have followed TUFC for a number of years now. My dad took me and my early memories are of Steve Cooper and Les Lawrence. When I was 9 or 10 Derek Bellotti lived down the road from me and he coached our primary school football team. I was the keeper and loved it. That gives you an idea of how old I am now.

I have lived in the NW for 15 years or so now and go to as many away games as I can (less this season). I live in Chester so when both them and Wrexham were in league 2 I was in heaven!

I read the forum every 2 or 3 days simply because you often hear rumours or snippets of info. before other sources. I am moved to post after the Accrington match as I amazed at the negativity and the lack of support that comes across from a number of posts on this forum. Threads like "Drop Rene" and "Knill 3 games" in are utterly incredulous.

A few of my thoughts after the match, you may or may not agree, frankly I'm not fussed either way.

1. There were 120 gulls fans there. Of a crowd of 1200, on the back of a losing streak and at Accrington that isn't bad. That gives me a good feeling and warms my supporting heart more than the negativity that is an ongoing theme on this forum.
2. Plainmoor, now, is so much better than the accrington ground. It is a sign of investment and stability. Would you want their ground and facilities? We should count our blessings.
3. I have been to most of the away games we have played at accrington and I am really pleased with a 0-0 result. Alan Knill commented on the OS that you have to play the weather, pitch and facilities and it is correct. After the last few visits in the rain and cold to see sending off's and losses 0-0 is a good point.
4. The officials. You expect a mediocre or poor referee in league 2 and that is what we got. In fact, at one point when it looked like a young lino might be doing a good job there was a mysterious "code green" called on the tannoy, play stopped for a few minutes and normal service was resumed when a slow, overweight, partialy sighted lino took his place. The referee gave no protection at all to Rene and Elliot. Rene was sent off here last season and I guess he was mindful of that. At one point he was involved in a challenge with an accrington defender going in two footed. The "crack" sound of the challenge was highly audible and yet no free kick. Two possible penalty shouts that might have been given in the premier league. Brian Saah bundled over for one of them. He wouldn't have dived would he? Whereas Their striker Gray seem to pick up free kicks easily enough by going down at every opportunity. Do we want players like that? So we had to play the ground, the pitch, the cold and the officials.
5. Great defending from the back four. Saah, Poke and Mcdonald played excellently. Lathrope and Mansell also helped well.
6. We were in control of the game. Apart from their disallowed goal they only had a handful of chances from open play. Their chances came from free kicks outside the area or corners.
7. Green shoots. It is obvious that Knill is asking the wide players to deliver more crosses. On many occasions Jarvis, Oastler, Bodin and Nicholson did this. In the first 20mins there was some great interplay between the four main attackers and especially Rene and Benyon.
8. Strikers. The partnership between Rene and Elliot is starting to work. They communicate and whereas Rene would previously, as a lone striker, have to chase everything he now has a foil who will do that as well. For those that say he doesn't chase in the way he did before it is because the formation and tactics are different. Benyon also got into the correct scoring areas of their box but we didn't find him.
8. Less play through the middle. There is much less play to the strikers through the middle than previously. The wings is where the delivery comes from. I don't know whether this is a tactic Knill likes or whether it is due to the technical ability of the two central midfielders. They are industrious but are definately not creative.
9. Final third, final ball and crossing. This was the most disappointing thing for me. On quite a number of occasions the wide players got in a position to deliver a cross or defence splitting pass and it was not directed well enough or was too close to their keeper. It is disappointing because there wasn't a shot at the end of a great move. As an example on one occasion Nicho got in behind their defence and into the area only to side foot pass it 10m to one of their players. That is not like him. This point will start to bring confidence and with that the accuracy in the final third. Many of the players seemed to find the weight of pass hard to judge on the a poor pitch. Jarvis, however, seemed to find a good weight of pass most times and delivered a good ball.
10. Leadbitter substitution. I applaud Knill here. It was a wise move to bring his pace and defensive qualities on to help ensure a well-deserved point.

I applaud the team for a battling and determined point on a ground we have had no success in the past. They all worked hard as a team. An example was Elliot chasing a ball down in the last 10minutes or so only for the defender to clear it into his face.

A few, new experienced faces would help but, what would also help is some positivity. It must be there or 120 people wouldn't have turned up on Saturday.

[AustrianAndyGull]

New to the forum. Not posted before. Probably won't again.

I have followed TUFC for a number of years now. My dad took me and my early memories are of Steve Cooper and Les Lawrence. When I was 9 or 10 Derek Bellotti lived down the road from me and he coached our primary school football team. I was the keeper and loved it. That gives you an idea of how old I am now.

I have lived in the NW for 15 years or so now and go to as many away games as I can (less this season). I live in Chester so when both them and Wrexham were in league 2 I was in heaven!

I read the forum every 2 or 3 days simply because you often hear rumours or snippets of info. before other sources. I am moved to post after the Accrington match as I amazed at the negativity and the lack of support that comes across from a number of posts on this forum. Threads like "Drop Rene" and "Knill 3 games" in are utterly incredulous.

A few of my thoughts after the match, you may or may not agree, frankly I'm not fussed either way.

1. There were 120 gulls fans there. Of a crowd of 1200, on the back of a losing streak and at Accrington that isn't bad. That gives me a good feeling and warms my supporting heart more than the negativity that is an ongoing theme on this forum.2. Plainmoor, now, is so much better than the accrington ground. It is a sign of investment and stability. Would you want their ground and facilities? We should count our blessings.
3. I have been to most of the away games we have played at accrington and I am really pleased with a 0-0 result. Alan Knill commented on the OS that you have to play the weather, pitch and facilities and it is correct. After the last few visits in the rain and cold to see sending off's and losses 0-0 is a good point.
4. The officials. You expect a mediocre or poor referee in league 2 and that is what we got. In fact, at one point when it looked like a young lino might be doing a good job there was a mysterious "code green" called on the tannoy, play stopped for a few minutes and normal service was resumed when a slow, overweight, partialy sighted lino took his place. The referee gave no protection at all to Rene and Elliot. Rene was sent off here last season and I guess he was mindful of that. At one point he was involved in a challenge with an accrington defender going in two footed. The "crack" sound of the challenge was highly audible and yet no free kick. Two possible penalty shouts that might have been given in the premier league. Brian Saah bundled over for one of them. He wouldn't have dived would he? Whereas Their striker Gray seem to pick up free kicks easily enough by going down at every opportunity. Do we want players like that? So we had to play the ground, the pitch, the cold and the officials.
5. Great defending from the back four. Saah, Poke and Mcdonald played excellently. Lathrope and Mansell also helped well.
6. We were in control of the game. Apart from their disallowed goal they only had a handful of chances from open play. Their chances came from free kicks outside the area or corners.
7. Green shoots. It is obvious that Knill is asking the wide players to deliver more crosses. On many occasions Jarvis, Oastler, Bodin and Nicholson did this. In the first 20mins there was some great interplay between the four main attackers and especially Rene and Benyon.
8. Strikers. The partnership between Rene and Elliot is starting to work. They communicate and whereas Rene would previously, as a lone striker, have to chase everything he now has a foil who will do that as well. For those that say he doesn't chase in the way he did before it is because the formation and tactics are different. Benyon also got into the correct scoring areas of their box but we didn't find him.
8. Less play through the middle. There is much less play to the strikers through the middle than previously. The wings is where the delivery comes from. I don't know whether this is a tactic Knill likes or whether it is due to the technical ability of the two central midfielders. They are industrious but are definately not creative.
9. Final third, final ball and crossing. This was the most disappointing thing for me. On quite a number of occasions the wide players got in a position to deliver a cross or defence splitting pass and it was not directed well enough or was too close to their keeper. It is disappointing because there wasn't a shot at the end of a great move. As an example on one occasion Nicho got in behind their defence and into the area only to side foot pass it 10m to one of their players. That is not like him. This point will start to bring confidence and with that the accuracy in the final third. Many of the players seemed to find the weight of pass hard to judge on the a poor pitch. Jarvis, however, seemed to find a good weight of pass most times and delivered a good ball.
10. Leadbitter substitution. I applaud Knill here. It was a wise move to bring his pace and defensive qualities on to help ensure a well-deserved point.

I applaud the team for a battling and determined point on a ground we have had no success in the past. They all worked hard as a team. An example was Elliot chasing a ball down in the last 10minutes or so only for the defender to clear it into his face.

A few, new experienced faces would help but, what would also help is some positivity. It must be there or 120 people wouldn't have turned up on Saturday.

Oh great, another one who thinks that anything negative posted is automtically incorrect and not valid. Wonderful. Can i just say that i too was there yesterday against some pretty grim odds and i supported throughout as i have done at loads of our away games this season. I am one of the more negative posters on here yet i go to as many games as poss and sing my b*llocks off and never complain at games. I turned up in sheer hope and because i'm a fan but fans are also entitled to negative opinions if that is what they genuinely see.

[Bitchie Renault]

Good post EdGull, very level headed, and welcome to the forum. Ignore the negative posters, they don't appreciate the good just ramp up the bad and are only here because no one will listen to them in the real world.

[AustrianAndyGull]

See my post on the Burton away thread and see how much i appreciate the good during the midst of all that is bad. If it is good i'll say it's good and give praise, if it is bad then i'll say it's bad and give criticism.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I shouldn't have made any comment on the above post. It was pointless and i'm just wasting my time.

[Bitchie Renault]

Content Removed - Personal Insult

[Dave_Pougher]

Thought you two had kissed made up and were supposed to be going for a pint !

Have to say to the mods. you do a great job but as soon as you read insults and slanging you just want to click off therefore stiifling debate. I noticed the other day you suspended someone for a few days. Could you not maybe try that a bit more?

Difficult I suppose deciding what is and isn't an insult these days.